Suddenly no water from telltale 2014 DF60

[tboydva]

Hi members. I have a 2014 DF60 with very close to 200 hours. I generally don't technically winterize my outboard as I live in a temperate area and put in monthly reminder to run it (I have a rectangular bin I fill with water) during the 4 cold months. I used the outboard very little this past year as we had the wettest year on record and my fishing waters were like chocolate milk for all but about 3 weeks. Anyway, this month I filled up the bin and started the engine to let it run. I wasn't really paying attention (I was prepping the kicker for a run) but somehow noticed that there was no water coming from the telltale (I have a tube that I use to route it into the bin so water doesn't go everywhere). In a panic, I shut down. I ran out my kicker for about 20 minutes, then started the DF60 again. Same thing. No water out of the telltale. I was planning on changing the impeller this Spring - so I did today. The "old" one was in perfect condition. I run in freshwater almost exclusively with perhaps one trip a year in the bay or Outer Banks (and I rinse with freshwater - and run in my local river upon returning). Anyway the pump, housing, lower unit, etc were all spotless with no corrosion or anything visibly amiss... So - for the experts:

1) In some threads, I read that the telltale can take a minute to start. It seems like an engine-specific phenomenon. Mine has peed from the moment the outboard fires up since 2014 (new)
2) From what I understand, the thermostat is designed to fail open. Either way, the telltale should be "in the water circuit" even if the thermostat is closed, right?
3) The pressure relief valve could be stuck, but that should make the telltale stream stronger, right?

I have snaked a wire up into the telltale hole with no discernible clogs. I blew out the water uptake tube when I had the foot off. There didn't appear to be any blockages.

So - what do I troubleshoot next? I understand there are layered failsafes to keep the outboard from overheating... I'm afraid to run it now? Any advise????

Thanks!
-Tom

[Moonlighter]

The impelller can get a “set” to it if it isnt used for a long time. This reduces pumping efficiency significantly. The part can look OK but the lack of flexibility is the limiting factor. I have seen motors that sat unused for 12 months and the impeller was totally useless and had to be changed.

Put the leg much deeper into the water drum. Let it sit for a few minutes before starting. Allows the water to rise up to the pump level.

And yes, both my DF115 and DF40A take what sometimes seems like a long time to start peeing when I start them on the muffs. In reality, if you timed it, it is probably 30 seconds at most, it just seems like a long time. If you use muffs, the small, soft round ones are by far the best to use.

Also, remember that these engines have very solid protection systems, and that if there wasn’t enough water circulating, then you would get an alarm, and that is the time to turn off and address the problem.

When I got the DF40A, I had been using the rectangular double feed muffs on the 115 which worked ok, somI tried them on the 40. But they didnt work properly and I got a temp alarm. So turned off, allowed to cool, and started again using the round muffs - problem solved.

If there is a blockage in the pee tube, the best way to unblock it is to run the heavy mono up thee when the engine is running, so the water pressure helps blast out the obstruction when the mono loosens it up.

[tboydva]

Moonlighter - you are tremendous resource! Thanks for posting. We're in a bit of a cold snap and I have the taps turned off in the basement to minimize pipes bursting. I guess something you don't worry about where you live! Looking over my log, it's been since mid--Sept that I had the boat out really running. December was the last bin run. I know the tube from the telltale had water in it, so there was at least adequate pumping at that time (no alarms or anything). During the next warmer spell, I'll give her a run and hope for the best. I tend to baby my stuff a bit, so the boat is garaged and the engine has a tight cover. In my area of the US, a type of wasp called a mud dauber can be notorious for establishing a home in the pee tube. I don't see any evidence of this. The garage stays closed during non-use periods and to my knowledge we have no infestations... As it takes a week to get parts, I was kind of thinking what I should have on hand the next time I fire it up. Probably worth having a spare thermostat on hand...

This is off topic a bit, but you are always a wealth of knowledge. I'm due very soon for my 200 hour service. The place I bought the outboard is the oldest Suzuki dealer for 100s of miles (160s of kms). Highly rated. Anyway, the only service component I'm not going to try myself is the valve adjustment (hate the shim style...). The dealer told me that I'm welcome to bring it back (it's a 2 hour drive) but in his experience the valves rarely need adjustment. I want to take it in before "the season" starts, but if we ever get a period without rain - I'm anxious to get out! Could you offer advise on how critical the deadline date for this service should be (definitely before 200 hours, 200 +/- 10 hours, 200 +/- 25 hours, etc). I'll probably be too nervous not to get it down there before the weather turns, but just thought I'd take advantage of wisdom if I can...

Thanks as always!
-Tom

[jHydroman]

I just checked the valve clearances on my pair DF 140's, 500 hrs on each engine and found al valve clearances within specification.

I had on of my engines telltale stream get week, I found thermostat stuck in the open position, changed thermostat and all was OK.

Jim

[tboydva]

Thanks Jim - I thought about doing this (I had motorcycles). I just don't like having to do it in two stages (do the measurement(s), then order the right shims, then a week or two later add the shims, then try to remember how to re-assemble). It's not cost effective for someone like me to try and order a shim kit...

Thanks for the thermostat info. I think it's time to order one - even if mine is OK. I actually thought I had but don't see it in my parts box. I think I'll run it with the new impeller and see how the telltale functions. Will probably check the thermostat after. The last time I ran it out, it came up to temperature, then stabilized. Pretty sure the thermostat was functioning. That was two months ago though.

Thanks again.-Tom

[Moonlighter]

Hi Tom

I dont think a few hours either way will matter much rev the valve clearance check.

While many, like Jim, have found that valve clearances were fine when checked, the reality is that you wont know whether yours is the 1 in 10 or whatever the odds are that need to be adjusted unless you do the check.

Neglect doing the check, and wave goodbye to warranty if any related failure happens down the track. A few years ago there were a number of valve clearance failures happened here and Suzuki Marine Australia found that the dealers involved had not been doing the valve clearance checks at the 200hr service - those dealers didnt even possess the special tool or shim kits required if clearances were out. Suzuki Au made the dealers fix the motors for the customers under warranty, and the dealers had to eat the cost.

I watched my dealer do the check on my DF115 and it took barely 15 minites, and all clearances were fine. Time and costs will of course increase if shims need to be changed.

Re the water - a thermostat change certainly wouldnt hurt, although I would wait and do the water test after the new impeller.

How did the internal anodes looked when you checked them?

[tboydva]

Thanks. I check the anodes on the "exterior" all the time (as I said, this is almost always run in freshwater). I just looked over my service manual and have to admit I have never noticed the photo of the internal anodes on the powerhead... I replaced my '83 Johnson 60HP with this one (only because the lower unit gears wore down and I had to think about having my family on the water and an unreliable outboard). Corrosion hasn't ever been an issue, but - I just ordered new internal zincs (and o-rings) along with a spare thermostat... Love this forum!!!

-Tom

[Solarman]

There is also the case of the water by-pass valve remaining stuck open, slowing the response time, and lowering the strength of the tell--tale stream.
Just simple things to check, that could affect the pre steam.

Good luck.

[tboydva]

Solarman - when you say "water by-pass valve" are you referring to the pressure valve (relief valve)? I searched my service manual for by-pass valve and the only near matches referred to the fueling system. I purchased a replacement (to have even if unneeded). I'm going to check that when we get our next warm stretch. Thanks!

[ADenton]

Hello all. I'm new so please forgive my forum ignorance. I'm not sure I'm even posting my question properly.
anyway, I have a 1986 DT 75. Starts great but no tell tale at all. I changed impeller yet still nothing. I removed thermostat and started it and have no water coming into thermostat housing. I did find a cone shaped spring in the propeller housing. After lots of research, I've removed the head and found the spring is from the water pressure valve. The valve was in but without a spring.
Nothing was broken or clogged.
question 1, how could that spring get down the leg and into the prop housing?
question 2, can the valve without a spring cause the water to not reach the thermostat.
question 3, am I missing something due to my ignorance?
im really trying to learn.

[Moonlighter]

Hello all. I'm new so please forgive my forum ignorance. I'm not sure I'm even posting my question properly.
anyway, I have a 1986 DT 75. Starts great but no tell tale at all. I changed impeller yet still nothing. I removed thermostat and started it and have no water coming into thermostat housing. I did find a cone shaped spring in the propeller housing. After lots of research, I've removed the head and found the spring is from the water pressure valve. The valve was in but without a spring.
Nothing was broken or clogged.
question 1, how could that spring get down the leg and into the prop housing?
question 2, can the valve without a spring cause the water to not reach the thermostat.
question 3, am I missing something due to my ignorance?
im really trying to learn.

Its a better idea to start a new thread given yours is ia different motor technology (2 stroke) than the motor being discussed here.

Just go to the main forum page and hit the + New Topic button (in blue just under the red Topics heading) and go from there.

We do have a couple of knowledgeable 2 stroke guys here who will help you out, just be a little patient.

[tboydva]

So - I have anodes arriving tomorrow. I guess none too soon. I was anxious to have a look. ***! I pulled a cooling plate off my '83 outboard in '12 and the inside looked like a new outboard. When I pulled out the internal anodes, they were a mess (and lots of accumulated salt near the openings). I rinse the engine after every salt-water use (and usually if the freshwater looks at all muddy). The thermostat looked pretty crudded up too. Time to do the vinegar boil!!! ***. I don't know what I got into but obviously my rinses aren't very good.

[Solarman]

Ok, the "water" by-pass valve, or pressure relief valve in the "water" system, remaining stuck open, slowing the response time, and lowering the strength of the tell--tale stream.
Just simple things to check, that could affect the tell-tale steam.
But after seeing your pics here, I would definitely recommend a vinegar flush, then look at those same parts, after the flush. There does seem to be a good amount of corrosion shown in pics.

Good luck.

[tommybe1]

On my df50 there is a aux water intake just above the prop. If I do not tape over this when running on the muffs, it will not pee very well if at all. Not sure if this applys to a df60 but always want to help because of the great advise I have received here. PS. don't forget to take the tape off after.

[Moonlighter]

On my df50 there is a aux water intake just above the prop. If I do not tape over this when running on the muffs, it will not pee very well if at all. Not sure if this applys to a df60 but always want to help because of the great advise I have received here. PS. don't forget to take the tape off after.

Which muffs do you use?

I found that using the small round soft muffs works perfectly. Any other kind - not so good.