Zuke DF225 problem in Raleigh, NC

[nibble]

2006 or 2007 Suzuki DF225 @ 550 hours.
On a 2007 Carolina Skiff Sea Chaser Offshore series 2400


Last Friday we launched and about 10 minutes later as we were doing about 25 mph the engine kinda skipped/stuttered, it felt like as if the engine died and restarted within a second or so. Did it a couple times then ran fine for 10 minutes or so. We slowed for a no wake zone and it did it a couple more times. Then we had it in neutral and after a few minutes it skipped/stuttered again and just died. Engine stopped. Turned the key and it fired right up and ran fine at idle for another couple minutes then died. But fired right back up. Then it died and when I turned the key,,,,,nothing,,,,not a thing, not a click, no lights, just nothing. Turned the key back off, back on, back off, sat for a few seconds, turned the key and it fired right up and ran perfect for 20 minutes, then skipped/stuttered again. Made it back to the dock and the next morning decided I wasn’t aggravated enough, I better try it again so we launched and it ran fine for maybe 20 minutes, then started the same scenario. Died a couple times and we had no lights, no bells, whistles, nothing. Eventually it fired up, ran fine and we made it to retrieve.

I have bought a new key switch panel and will install it tomorrow if it gets delivered early enough. I’ve now read about the dreaded “white wire” problems alot of guys with Zuke’s have had. I’m not electrically inclined at all and would gladly pay someone with this experience to chase this. I’m near Raleigh, NC and would be willing to drive to you, and again, pay for your time.
Thanks.




UPDATE ALREADY !!!!!!!
I went out to mess with the motor after I posted the above and check this out......
I wanted to check the battery wire for tightness and sure enough, battery 1 had a loose hot wire. I tightened it and went to start the motor but it wouldn't so I flipped the Perko to battery 2 and it fired right up and ran perfect. While running I went and switched to battery 1 and the motor died. Did this a couple times, same results. So I left it running on battery 2 for 30 minutes, ran perfect. Switched to battery 1, it died.
I get off work at noon tomorrow and I'm going to switch battery places, put 1 where 2 is and vice versa to eliminate the battery or the Perko switch. Both batterys are AGM and were bought new last year. along with an onboard charger that is kept plugged in when not at the ocean.
But first thing I'll do tomorrow is see if being on the charger overnight will get battery 1 back in shape, we'll see.

[artdf175]

The 'white wire' feeds power to the ECM
Any interruption to that power source does exactly what you describe is happening
Find the connector that is off the battery switch to the white wire and I think you will find your problem
Replace that connector first
Art

Ps good job on outlining the problem

[Lunchmoney]

If you ever need him, Bob Dumong at Buckhorn Boat Doc isn't too far from you. Best Suzuki guy in NC/SC. Over the phone he helped me find the hole under the exhaust valve on my head when everyone else was stumped. Good dude.

[nibble]

Well, battery 2 started the motor and ran fine until today when I disconnected the hot lead while running. The motor stalled the same as when running on battery 1 and now has the same characteristics as battery 1. I'm going to check the volts coming out of each battery when my neighbor gets home and lends me his volt meter. He's an electrical engineer and I can pick his brain.

[nibble]

If you ever need him, Bob Dumong at Buckhorn Boat Doc isn't too far from you. Best Suzuki guy in NC/SC. Over the phone he helped me find the hole under the exhaust valve on my head when everyone else was stumped. Good dude.

Thanks Lunch, if I can't get to the bottom of it, which I probably can't, he will be my first call unless someone else from here chimes in and can check it out first. I'm sure Bob is busier than busy this time of year and I'm in a hurry, I have friends coming in town the next few weekends and they want to boat/fish.

Thanks guys.

[artdf175]

Well, battery 2 started the motor and ran fine until today when I disconnected the hot lead while running. The motor stalled the same as when running on battery 1 and now has the same characteristics as battery 1. I'm going to check the volts coming out of each battery when my neighbor gets home and lends me his volt meter. He's an electrical engineer and I can pick his brain.

You are not listening
The ECM has to have the battery power source to run
When you disconnected the power - the engine shuts down
These engines will not run on their own

[nibble]

You are not listening
The ECM has to have the battery power source to run
When you disconnected the power - the engine shuts down
These engines will not run on their own

I'm listening to every word you guys say. I am NOT however electronically gifted. I wanted to see IF the motor ran without a battery hooked up,,,,like a car will when testing the alternator. Please excuse my ignorance of all things electrical. I am a tool and die maker journeyman by trade. If you want something made or designed from metal of any sort, I can help with that, but nothing electrical.
I'm not an idiot, unless it has to do with electricity, then I am out of my realm.

I appreciate your help more than you can imagine !!!

[artdf175]

No problem
In your wiring from bat1 to the remote, it appears you have a failure in an connector. I had the same problem you described
I discovered the 'white wire' and after doing much checking and found a lot of other guys were having the same problem wrote up the sticky you see at the top of the page
The wiring can be simple or more complicated depending how your boat was originally wired
The more simple way is off the battery switch a shorter red wire connects through a connector to the white wire, it is supposed to be a water tight connector but some installers just put a quick straight connector where the wires go in each end and are crimped in the center -
This is what happened in my boat. Salt water evidently found its way into the wiring. The copper wires inside the connector and out of sight corroded. As it was going bad it would make some contact the engine ran hit a wave and for no apparent reason the engine would die. Finally it just quit. I was lucky when it failed completely - I was in my driveway. Started pulling on the wiring to track down what each wire was used for and the connector with a white wire coming out the backside just fell apart in my hand. respliced the joint and problem solved.
The more complicated way is to have the white wire run up through the engine. This was discussed in more detail on the conversation that was referenced in my sticky. I don't think this is the way yours was wired.
Intermittent problems are very difficult to track down.
Complete failures are easier to find and deal with.
Go to your electrical switch off Bat1 and find the one that connects to the white wire - check the slice joint Less likely but worth checking is the red wire coming out of the Bat switch. Are those wires tight on the backside of the switch itself?

I apologize for being somewhat abrupt earlier.
Art

[nibble]

Art
No apologies necessary, I can see how you thought I wasn't paying attention, no worries. I'm going to TRY to get my "electrical engineer" neighbor over here tomorrow to guide me thru this. If only he wanted to boat or fish, which I've asked him 25 times to do, he would be more apt to help out, right? If we don't get it figured out tomorrow I'm calling that Bob guy mentioned above. He's only about 40 minutes from me.
Doesn't it stink being without your boat running? I've got possession of the father in laws bass boat, but I don't care to go on a lake at all, I just want to be on salt water.

Thanks y'all.

[artdf175]

Some folks don't share our passion for being on the water and or fishing. If he likes fish- just keep sharing. He may have had experiences with the dreaded motion sickness
As far as not knowing how to tackle the wiring- over the years I have taught myself how to deal with problems like this and not rely on others unless it is going to cost me a lot to break something or just don't have the tools
An over simplistic observation:
As a tool and die maker you are a problem solver bring in a problem and you can figure out a way to solve it
Your current problem doesn't really call for electrical engineering degree to solve
There is a broken link its just a matter of where to start looking
You did the analysis - in great detail- you have already isolated the problem
Don't understand spending money on a new key switch without knowing for sure it was the problem. When you turn the key and nothing happens, my first thought is I've lost the power source.
And one last rhetorical question: you are 50 miles offshore and a problem develops and no one to call - what are you going to do?
Enough--
Good luck and let us know what you discover
Art

[nibble]

Some folks don't share our passion for being on the water and or fishing. If he likes fish- just keep sharing. He may have had experiences with the dreaded motion sickness
As far as not knowing how to tackle the wiring- over the years I have taught myself how to deal with problems like this and not rely on others unless it is going to cost me a lot to break something or just don't have the tools
An over simplistic observation:
As a tool and die maker you are a problem solver bring in a problem and you can figure out a way to solve it
Your current problem doesn't really call for electrical engineering degree to solve
There is a broken link its just a matter of where to start looking
You did the analysis - in great detail- you have already isolated the problem
Don't understand spending money on a new key switch without knowing for sure it was the problem. When you turn the key and nothing happens, my first thought is I've lost the power source.
And one last rhetorical question: you are 50 miles offshore and a problem develops and no one to call - what are you going to do?
Enough--
Good luck and let us know what you discover
Art

I don't go 50 miles offshore, maybe someday if I get a bigger boat with twin screws.
I didn't really figure the key switch panel was bad, I mainly just wanted a new 1 because the old was marked and worn. If you ever saw my 10 year old boat you would think it's a year old, I'm beyond anal about all my stuff.

I got towed last year, first time on my boat. The IAC went. I did some on line research, ordered a few of them and changed it out. It will now become a yearly "preventive maintenance" item. I also change the impeller ahead of time. As cheap as some wear items are to replace there's NO reason to let run full term only to let them fail.

[nibble]

Here's the update........
I read and studied everything I could. I found out the cable from battery 1 to the Perko switch was bad.............................
But not until I replaced the in-line fuse and the infamous "white wire" going from the motor to the Perko. New wire only from new in-line fuse, not the entire wire. There old "white wire" tested fine, I just didn't like the way they had it kinked and taped, felt like it was about to give out. Replaced both 6' battery cables from battery 2 over to the Perko and battery one negative. Replaced lugs on the end of cables running from helm/control board to battery.

So, all electronics work, motor starts and runs on each battery,,,,,,but I notice the oil pressure isn't working and then the motor stalls !!!!!!!!! Starts right up and STALLS !!!
Could the oil pump have decided to take a dump right now? Seriously ???

Where do I get a manual?

[nibble]

Ordered a manual from Brownells.