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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2015, 07:04 PM
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Thanks Grant. I'd like to have everything working a month from now, so a few days won't hurt. I took some photos of my engine's internal & external cabling, which I would be happy to send you either for your documentation, or just to help understand what my setup looks like. I'm wondering if all I did by plugging the two cables together inside my motor, was to provide power to the EIC. But I would expect it can get the power it needs from the NMEA Bus.

I have two motives for getting this working:

(1) I want to know if I'm running the right prop on my boat, hence need RPMs

(2) My boat was built in 1955, and most people who own them go for "period" motors, e.g. 1956 Evinrude or Merc. While I have some admiration for that approach, I really love the way this Zook drives my little boat, and I like the peace and quiet! I'm going to meet some of these people for the first time in a month, and I'd like to show some little benefits to new motors vs old, rather than just being too lazy to keep an old motor running. If they see that I tried and failed, I think they'll really be rubbing it in. I'll have to just leave everything at home!

Thanks for your help,
Jeff
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2015, 07:59 PM
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No problems, Jeff.

We now know that the Suzuki engine interface cable gets its power from the engine connection, not from the NMEA bus as we originally thought. I can tell you a long story about how a I discovered that, but suffice to say, that is the fact of the situation.

And as you've discovered from your bench test, the network will only "see" the Suzuki device when the interface is powered.

I am waiting for some advice from my Suzuki guru. At the moment, I suspect that on these smaller motors, the only way to get engine data onto the network is via a direct connection to the SDS port on the engine, using an adapter cable. And that plugging the main harness into the SDS port, as works on larger engines and has you have now done, may not work on the smaller A series engines.

So I'm waiting on advice as to whether that is correct or not. If it is correct, then it should simply be a case of getting the adapter cable and connecting it up.

Will post again as soon as I have a definite answer. Shouldn't be too long.

Cheers

Grant
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 07:11 PM
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Ok, well I've spoken to the guru and yes, in the smaller A series motors the only way to connect the engine to the network is by connecting the network to the SDS port using the adapter cable.

So put the connection to the main harness under the cowl back how it originally was, and sorry, but you'll have to get the adapter cable. Here in Aus, they make it 7m long so you can run it from the SDS port, thru the rigging tube and to the dash, where you can then connect the interface cable to it.

Don't worry about the engine HP selection in the config page - eg regardless of what it defaults to, you should still get correct fuel flow data, according to my Suzuki sources.
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2015, 10:08 PM
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Thanks Grant. I guess I'll pursue that. So I'm curious - what is the purpose of Suzuki providing the same 4-pin "Engine Interface" connector on the external wiring harness that came with my motor? Is there some other use for it? What is coming out of it? Does it just allow Suzuki to use some common wiring harness for different motors, and have no function on my motor? That's pretty frustrating...

Thanks,
Jeff
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 04:31 AM
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Hi again Jeff

The original intent that Suzuki had when this all started was for the interface to be used in conjunction with the Suzuki SMIS digital gauges. These gauges have software included that displays the engine fault codes and warnings. So, when used in conjunction with those gauges, the connection could be done via the SDS port being connected to the main control harness. And the interface cable has the correct plug on the end to connect to the engine harness behind the dash.

What was subsequently realised by some clever blokes in Australia (before I got involved in this stuff) was that those of us who had analogue gauges could tap into the ECU and get the engine data onto their networks, and from there into their MFD screen, while leaving the analogue gauges working as normal.

This was important because the analogue tachometer has the 3 warning lights on it and could thus display fault codes and warnings, which wouldn't display on other non-Suzuki displays. Suzuki warranty is compromised if you don't have the warning lights displayed one way or another.

In fact, here in Aus, Suzuki had a loose partnership with Garmin and didn't use the SMIS gauges at all, they used the Garmin GMI-10 or 20 displays instead. And to overcome the issue of warning lights, they supplied a small panel that just has the 3 warning lights on it. They connected the interface to the SDS port and the warning panel to the harness.

In the early days, we all made up our own adapter cables because as we all know, the interface cable plug is the same *** as the SDS plug so they won't connect together. Hence you need the adapter cable.

I don't know what went wrong with this logic re the small A series engines. Perhaps they didn't plan on them being made NMEA2000 capable, or perhaps it's something to do with them mainly being tiller steer.

Hope that gives you a sense of what we've got and how we've got there.

Grant
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 03:40 PM
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Hi guy's.
Nice to see another with the same quest, at the same time, with the same reasoning, same way of working, same conclusions, same support from Grant and my engine supplier Niksnut, other (THT) forum

Feels less alone.
My cable will arrive sept 2nd.
Engine is a DF30ATS.
Trimsensor is also an option, so have to get that also.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (51.4 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by keizerh; 08-26-2015 at 04:17 PM.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2015, 10:53 PM
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I ordered a cable today, hope to have it in a few days. I spent some time yesterday staring at the engine interface cable (EIC),trying to find some info on how the trim communication would work. So do you have to add a sender to the power trim unit to get it to communicate with a gauge? That's not included in the power trim? I notice on the EIC that the trim connector is tied in to 2 pins of the 4-pin N2K connector. Does that mean those two pins in the trim connector are for the high and low data lines in the N2K bus?

I'm just trusting that this new cable is going to be the end of the story! Looking through the internet, it sure looks like Grant knows what he's doing.

I miss having trim on my boat. But it's a 13-ft aluminum boat that weighs all of about 350 lbs without the motor, and I chose against the extra 20 pounds (and extra $$) for the trim. All the folks who put old motors on my type of boat are always talking about how light old motors were (100 lbs) versus a modern 4-stroke equivalent (140 lbs for the Zuke, which I believe is the lightest in the 25/30 class).

I love the motor, but it's going to take me a long time to learn to ignore that 15 ft of unused cable laying in the floor of my boat, knowing that I had to pay good money for the other (equivalent) cable laying next to it. I've got nowhere to hide all the cable.

Cheers,
Jeff
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2015, 12:57 PM
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Yes, yes and yes.
Hope this is the beginning of the measurement story.
If the engine wasnt this light, i had to choose fore a 20HP
I can put the cable in the console, which is almost full with all the nmea, remote control, steering and interfacing stuff.

Will you keep us posted?

I am very curious why this cable is so expensive.
The connectors are just $2,95 at Eastern Beaver
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2015, 10:07 PM
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Default Put a fork in me...

Grant can put another feather in his cap...

I got my SDS-SMIS adapter cable in the mail today. A bit disappointed because it is shorter than I expected @ 6 ft, but that's minor. Connected it to the unused SDS cable under the cowling, and to the Engine Interface Cable (EIC). Plugged the EIC into my little forest of Tees.

Now a detour - I took my boat out this weekend, and it happens that on my 2-hr cruise the oil LED on my engine started blinking. I agree with other comments on this forum that that's not a very effective message protocol. There I am in the middle of the river with no cell coverage, and this light starts blinking. No warning sounds, and the engine was running fine, so I guessed that it was probably telling me it was time for routine maintenance, and I ignored it. I told my wife "If that gauge was working, it would tell me what that blinking light means." Got home and dug through the manual to verify that it's time for 20-hr maintenance.

So tonight I plug everything up with the new cable and turn the key. The LMF400 boots up and displays a message panel on top of the gauge displays, saying "Change Oil". Also seeing Engine Voltage and reasonable RPM displayed. And I get water speed when I spin the paddlewheel. I guess it will take a couple weeks to see if fuel use numbers are reasonable.

Looks like I've arrived, just as predicted. Lesson verified: DF25A requires SDS-SMIS adapter cable plugged under engine cowling to use NMEA2000. I paid US$50 for this cable. Depending on what your time is worth to you, would seem reasonable to me to buy the connectors and build your own such cable. as described elsewhere in this NMEA2000 thread. I threaded the new cable through the rubber bushing that holds the other two cables of the engine harness. I guess I'll zip-tie it to the main harness. I have photos of everything, if it's of any value here.

Grant, thanks for your generous advice.

Regards,
Jeff
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2015, 12:23 AM
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Jeff,
Great.
Would like some pics.
Can you tell where you got the cable? where I found them they are 180 USD.
Is it just a cable? Then we can build it ourselve in future.
Mine will be in tomorrow I hope.

Last edited by keizerh; 09-01-2015 at 12:28 AM.
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