Suzuki new Multi Function Gauge and NMEA2000

[Flippa]

Yes, we are talking about the same gauge. There is no on/off switch, it comes on when the network is powered on.

Did you notice the difference between our two network diagrams??

On mine, there is only ONE connection to the gauge: and that is direct to a network T piece from the NMEA2000 plug on the gauge. My setup also has 4 T pieces, same as your first diagram.

Set it up as per your first diagram, but REMOVE the connection between the gauge and the analogue harness connector. Make sure there is ONLY 1 connection (the NMEA2000 connection) from the gauge to anything else. That should have it set up exactly as per my diagram, with NO OTHER connections. Report back on the results.

We need to do things one step at a time to solve this problem. Change one thing, test again, is the best problem solving approach.

If what I have suggested above doesnt work, then we will try software updates, but not until then!

Hi Grant,

I'm having a similar but different issue to Per.

I too bought a 2015 model DF140ATX complete with the colour multi function gauge when I had a boat built last year. I have done all of the electrical fit out myself besides that required to get the motor and gauge operational. On closer inspection it looks like the dealer has installed the gauge like on Per's wiring diagram.

The gauge appears to work properly except for the fuel gauge and for one reason or another I can't properly configure the fuel tank. On discussing this both with the dealer I bought the motor from and my local dealer their opinion is that I can't get this to work without a tank level sender. I was none to impressed... The gauge however is able to show the fuel used and I can zero this when I fill up but not top up, so it's usable but not ideal.

I have since got my N2K network up and running and interfaced the gauge and an HDS gen 3 MFD to it. I did this by connecting the gauge to the network while still connected to the square plug, so the gauge is effectively passing engine data to the network. Most of the engine data is available to the network except for fuel usage. The instantaneous fuel data is available like L/hr but not integrated data like L/trip or fuel remaining. Given what I have read previously I'm surprised I got this much to work.

I suspect this is because the interface cable between the gauge and motor doesn't have the Lowrance EP-85R fuel data manager module in it. If I were to install an EP-85R on the network do you think this would resolve my issue?

Regards

Flip

[Flippa]

now this setup is tested:
1.Gauge connection only to NMEA network
Digital output from engine to harness to interface-adapter to NMEA network
Gauge doesn't turn on when key is turned

2. Digital output from engine to harness to gauge
No interface-adapter
Gauge turn on when key is turned

Hi Kreuz,

With setup 1. did you have your N2K network powered up, as in this configuration the gauge is powered by the network not the key switch?

Regards

Flip

[tomille3]

Does the gauge have an NMEA2000 black cable ?

If not I don't know and I'll let Moonlighter answer

If yes , you just have to had a T on the back bone then you connect the gauge on it and that it .......then you should be able to see the data on both HDS and gauge , then all the gauge data on the HDS

[tomille3]

Hi Art
The problem is not the HDS - I can connect and see all data. The problem is that I cant connect both the HDS and the gauge at the same time
Per

Does the gauge have an NMEA2000 cable ?

If not I don't know and I'll let Moonlighter answer

If yes , you just have to had a T on the back bone then you connect the gauge on it and that it ..

[Oleg760]

Hi Per,

Met the same problem you discussed a couple of mothes ago. The only difference - I have got Humminbird and this new multi function gauge. I do not know if you found the solution or not but ready to tell where I am.
The results are exacttly the same you had.
This gauge is not for distribution on the US market. The model you can buy there is C10.
One of the broshures I saw on this gauge mentioned NMEA output and has word "pending" in breakets. I have now idea what this mean, bu one of the local distributors here in Russia mentionrd that complete NMEA ability will work only at the gauges at the end of 2016. Until that time only gps sensor and speed sensor can be swithed to the gauge using local(separate from the engine NMEA2k) However, I have not got any second confirmation of this statement.
The issue on Y splitter is still open, but there is no much hope, since digital port provides for two way communication and this solution makes it impossible
Thus at the moment I am waiting for the reply from the distributor who promised to contact the producer to clarify the issue. I will inform here on the results ,if any.

[Moonlighter]

I am unable to offer any further suggestions. Other than, you should go back to your Suzuki dealer and ask them to set it up for you so that it works.

[Kreuz1971]

now this setup is tested:
1.Gauge connection only to NMEA network
Digital output from engine to harness to interface-adapter to NMEA network
Gauge doesn't turn on when key is turned

2. Digital output from engine to harness to gauge
No interface-adapter
Gauge turn on when key is turned

[Moonlighter]

Yes, we are talking about the same gauge. There is no on/off switch, it comes on when the network is powered on.

Did you notice the difference between our two network diagrams??

On mine, there is only ONE connection to the gauge: and that is direct to a network T piece from the NMEA2000 plug on the gauge. My setup also has 4 T pieces, same as your first diagram.

Set it up as per your first diagram, but REMOVE the connection between the gauge and the analogue harness connector. Make sure there is ONLY 1 connection (the NMEA2000 connection) from the gauge to anything else. That should have it set up exactly as per my diagram, with NO OTHER connections. Report back on the results.

We need to do things one step at a time to solve this problem. Change one thing, test again, is the best problem solving approach.

If what I have suggested above doesnt work, then we will try software updates, but not until then!

[Kreuz1971]

Just want to clarify that there is no on/off button on the gauge - it should turn on when ignition is on

I was wondering - is it possible that the gauge is faulty or perhaps it needs a softwareupdate before the HDS can see it in the NMEA connection ?

[Kreuz1971]

Hi Grant,
please see attached file for the two connections that I have tested.

Just to be absolutely sure that we talk about the same gauge - part number is 34200-96L00 and it looks like this: http://suzukimarine.com.au/assets/pr...tion-Gauge.pdf

I tried to google C10 and perhaps theres a difference - just want to be sure.

Per

[Moonlighter]

See the attached diagram, this is how the network should look.

[Moonlighter]

Hi again Per

Firstly there is no "dual" digital output issue as you have theorised. The whole point of a NMEA network is that a single input of data to the network (via the engine interface cable, for example) is able to be shared across multiple devices (eg HDA and C10 or anything else on the network).

Think of the N2K network as being like the telephone line in your house: if you have 3 phones in different rooms, they can all listen in on one call, right? Same as a computer network where if you have 1 printer on the network, 3 computers on the network can all send print items to the same printer. N2K network is similar to that.

One important thing to remember when you are setting all this up and testing it: for the HDS to "see" the Suzuki engine and the C10 device, both need to be turned on. In the case of the engine interface, the engine's key needs to be switched on, but the engine doesnt need to be actually running. Did you have them all turned on when you checked things as per your last message?

I must admit that am still a bit confused as to how your network is now set up.

When the HDS is connected to the network through its T piece, where is the C10 plugged in? Is it also connected to a network T piece? Is the engine interface also connected to a T piece too?

You see, if the HDS is getting engine data from the network, then the C10, if it is connected to the same network thru a T piece that is part of the network, then it should get power from the network through the network connection cable so it should then turn on and will also show engine data.

If that is how you have it set up there is only two things I can think of:

1. maybe the T piece for the C10 is faulty and is not connecting to the network. Can you try a different T piece in that position and see if that changes anything? Or swap it with another T piece and see if the problem follows that T piece?

2. Or, possibly, you haven't got the C10 connected correctly to that T piece. Remember, devices (C10, the HDS etc) can only be plugged into the "leg" part of a T piece. Never to the top cross part.

Otherwise, can you hand draw a diagram of the network including the C10 connection, scan it and post it up here so i can see what youve got? That will help us figure out what is going on. I will do a quick sketch of what your network should look like and post it here for you to compare.

[Kreuz1971]

Hi Grant,
first of all thanks for your great help here !
I have just returned from the boat - i connected exactly as you said. The result is that the HDS see the Suzuki-engine through the interface, but the Gauge doesn't turn on

When connecting the digital output (without the interface-cable) to the gauge it turns on as it should - but then I don't have a plug for the interface-cable which should go to the HDS. The HDS can't see the Suzuki-engine without the interface-cable it sees "something" in the devicelist (probably the gauge) but not an engine

My theory is:
The engine is originally equipped with the standard analog gauge but I made a deal with the dealer to switch to the new Multi Function Gauge when i bought the motor.
If (I think it is like that ?) you buy a new motor in 2016 it will be equipped with the new Multi Function Gauge and it will then be with pure digital with an extra digital output from the control unit to connect to a NMEA network.
As it is on my engine now I only have one digital output from the controlunit and I need two - one for the Gauge and one for the NMEA

I have asked the distributor in Denmark for the servicemanual on a 2016 to see if it is like above and if I can't see anything in that I must try to find a brandnew engine delivered with the new gauge and ask if I can make a connection to see how it works - perhaps someone in the forum has this possibility ??

Perhaps end of the story would be that I have to prioritize the Multi Gauge and don't have the NMEA connection to the HDS, but as my twinbrother is a Lowrance Prostaff member this will not be an easy task :-) ......and the information that you get on the HDS is much more detailed than on the Multi Gauge.

Per

[Moonlighter]

Ok, i can now confirm that one of the top Suzuki dealers in the US and one who I know for certain knows more about this stuff than almost any others hasnt seen that diagram or method you have used.

I also spoke to my local Suzuki guy here in Australia. He and I together worked out most of this stuff since it really got going over here from about 2010, and have continued to share info and keep ourselves at the top of the knowledge tree on this stuff. He is more expert on me than linking Garmin gear to the Suzuki's, I am more expert than him linking Suzuki to Lowrance and Simrad. He hasnt seen that diagram either.

If you call Lowrance in Australia to ask about linking your Suzuki to Lowrance via NMeA2000, they send you a paper I wrote. Fuuny, one day I called them to ask about something that had me stumped and they referred to my own paper!! I should hit them up some $ for use of intellectual property!

Anyway, both said that the method in that diagram is inconsistent with established NMEA2000 networking protocols. I.e it breaks the rule of no direct connections between devices.

Both install the networks with C10 displays exaxtly the way I have outlined in my paper, and plan to continue to do it that way.

Both agree with my recommendation that you should disconnect it, and redo the installation as per my paper. That is, with a proper, simple NMEA2000 network and have everything connected to the network.

We know it will work if done that way, because we have all set up many using that approach. We know that our way wil not damage anything.

let us know how you go.

[Moonlighter]

Hi Art
The problem is not the HDS - I can connect and see all data. The problem is that I cant connect both the HDS and the gauge at the same time
Per

Per

I am waiting for further confirmation from my contacts at Suzuki, but....

I think I see what the problem is. I think that the wiring diagram you posted earlier in this thread at post #4 is intended to be used when ONLY the C10 display is being used, nothing else networked. So, as a stand-alone gauge similar to an old analogue gauge.

I think this diagram has lead you up the wrong path. Frankly, i would completely ignore it because the way it is set up is far more complicated and it means that you are not taking advantage of the C10's full capabilities.

As i say, my initial advice from my Suzuki contacts is that the C10 is set up exactly as per the connection method I outlined in my papers on the sticky thread on this forum. I don't think anyone sets it up as shown in that diagram, even Suzuki deakers! (Am just waiting some confirmation on that bit!)

If you look on the right hand side of that diagram, there is a section inside a dotted line that includes T pieces and a cable is shown connecting between the C10 and the group of T pieces. It is noted as the optional way to set up if you want to add other devices.

Can you confirm that in that diagram, the item labelled as #12 is the interface cable? I think it will be. If that is the case, then......

I think it is best to start over again, fresh, with your installation. Disconnect the C10 totally from how you've got it wired up now.

Then Create a simple NMEA2000 network and connect everything though it, then you will achieve what you want to. As per my instructions in my paper. Where diagrams show a SMIs display, simply substitute the C10.

Doing it this way will give the C10 access to GPS data (and thus be able to give you mpg and other data such as distance to empty) from the HDS connected to the network. Without access to GPS data it cant do those calculations.

It really is that simple. Both the C10 and the HDS can then share and display the engine data at the same time. The C10 will use the GPS data from the HDS in ots calculations, and the HDS will display engine data from the network.