DF140A Motor Height & Monitoring

[JWBoater]

Hi All,

I'll just start by saying thank you for everyones input. You are all a great resource.

So, I have a 2013 Alumacraft Trophy 175 LE with a 2013 DF140A and a 2013 9.9B kicker mounted on the port (left/passenger) side. DF140A has a Suzuki SS 14-22 3-blade. Boat is rigged with standard gauges, No SMIS or C-10. I have a Humminbird 898C HD SI at the console and a 859CI HD on the bow.

DF140A was mounted with the upper bolts through the second from the top holes. The AV plate was well be low the surface of water up on plane with a normal load (2 adults + fishing gear) I could get 5850rpm and 39-40mph GPS.

I raised the motor an additional 2 holes. So the upper bolts now go through the second from the BOTTOM holes. Planed out with the same load, I'm now at 6000RPM and 42-43mpg GPS. The AV plate now runs right at the water surface with spray coming over it. It handles really well and seems to jump up on plane quicker.

Picture attached, but I do have a video also if needed.

I'm wondering if I should raise it up the last hole? This would get the AV plate about 3/4" above water surface and maybe another 75-100RPM. Speed may increase 1mph. I did notice that at the current setting and while doing tight turns it sounds like it may be ventilating a little without trimming the motor down. I am inclined to leave it where it's at as maybe a best all around setting.

Second question is about monitoring the motor / motors. I have contemplated installing either the slightly older SMIS gauge or the newer C-10 to replace the standard speedo that is stuck at 45mpg lols. The 2013 DF140A should be just fine in either regard from what I've read. However, neither option is inexpensive. I also considered setting up the NMEA2000 network and having the data sent to the Humminbird 898C HD SI at the console. However, that takes some special connections also and I am really unsure as what will actually work with the Humminbird. I have contacted them, but even they are unable to provide concrete information regarding what information will be available.

Is there a consensus on the preferred most stable method; the older SMIS gauge, the newer C-10 gauge, or porting the info to your graph/plotter. I only have a single unit at the console and no plans to add a second.

Also, if the preferred option is either the SMIS or C-10 does anyone happen to know if the "kit" options are all inclusive or will I need additional sensors / cables?

Thanks all

Really appreciate your info and help.

[Harper]

To answer you last question first.....the kit normally includes the backbone and I think the power cable, but no sensors and no engine interface, even if needed. I don't believe newer models require an interface. As for the choice between C-10 and SMIS, I'll leave that one to Moonlighter.

As to your mounting height. I think you probably have it about where it should be. You might be able to go one higher, but I don't know that doing so would gain much. And you might encounter more ventilation occurences than you really want to deal with. You should expect to have to lower the trim in your turns with the outboard mounted at the optimum height. That's a given.

Looks to me like you're in good shape.

[JWBoater]

Thanks Harper,

I kind of figured the height part was good.. Atleast for my needs.

I appreciate the info on the gauges aspect. I think it may be 'user' preference also, which makes it a difficult decision for those of us who don't know better

[Moonlighter]

I agree with Mike that the engine height sounds good where it is. I suspect if you lift it any higher the prop will blow out too easily.

Regarding the engine data/gauges, it is not an inexpensive option as you know.

You will need:
- 1 x NMEA 2000 starter kit (about $70) includes 2 x T pieces, power node, several network cables.
- 1 x Suzuki emgine interface cable ($110) comes with a T piece
And, if you want to keep your analogue tach, you will also need a interface adapter cable. Another $90.

But if you get rid of the tach and go with a C-10, you dont need the adapter cable. I would advise against the SMIS they are very old tech and becoming unreliable with newer motors. The C-10 gives you all the engine fault codes that would be shown on the analogue tacho lights, which makes the analogue tach superfluous. Plus they are just a much nicer colour gauge than the old SMIS.

So you than have the cost of the C-10 to add to the above.

Re using the Humminbird as the engine data display, I'venever used them. Last time I checked (some years ago) they were not NMEA2000 certified so that simply ruled them out last time I checked.

You would need to check your Bird owners manuals and see if:

- they are now NMEA2000 certified and have the N2K connector plug on the back
- they have engine data pages that allow you to display the data output by the Suzuki.

If that all checks out, then you could leave the analogue tach in (so you still get the fault codes on its lights) and connect up the interface via the adapter cable to the SDS port on the engine. That way you keep the analogue data plus also get the digital data on the 'Bird (assuming that works). The N2K starter kit has a drop cable and T that you can use to connect it to the network.

Hope that helps.

[JWBoater]

Thanks Moonlighter,

Were you able to see the picture of the motor height reference the water stream?? You can barely, and I mean barely make out the plate.

Reference the C-10 gauge, I was looking at a kit on Ebay or Browns point. This is what they both show as included in the "kit"

Kit Includes:
(1) C-10 Color Multi-Function Display
(1) SMIS Power Cable
(3) T-Connectors
(1) Terminating Resistor 120 ohm Female
(1) Terminating Resistor 120 ohm Male
(1) SMIS Engine Interface Cable

So, does this have everything I need then?

Here is a picture of the current gauge cluster... Lower left is speedo/fuel level, upper is tach/volt, 2" gauge is trouble lights..

I was thinking of replacing the speedo/fuel level with the C-10. It does list as it needing an additional sensor for Fuel Level / Fuel Flow... The Flow sensor makes sense.. but can I use the current sending leads for Fuel Level?

Or should I remove both 4" gauges and just use the C-10 since it has the ability to do everything anyway?

Thanks again all

[Moonlighter]

Yes, that kit has everything you need, on the basis that you are NOT keeping any existing analogue gauges that connect to the engine harness.

You WILL NOT need a fuel flow sensor because the engine sends fuel flow data to the network via the interface cable, and it is far far more accurate than any in-line sensor could ever be. In fact it would be a mistake to add one as it will conflict with the engine data.

You can get a NMEA2000 fluid level sensor that will attach to the electric tank level sender on your fuel tank. That will then show tank level on the C-10. But to be honest, I would hold off getting that because once you have the interface set up and calibrated, it will tell you how much fuel you have used and how much is remaining very accurately. You just have to remember to reset the fuel level in the C-10 when you fill up.

The Suzuki transmits the following data to the network, and it can then be displayed on the C10:

Engine data transmitted to network

RPM, alternator voltage, engine temperature, engine hours, trim, fuel flow rate, fuel used, seasonal fuel used, trip fuel used. Newer "A" series also get water pressure, water speed. Engine diagnostics are also transmitted.

Yes, saw the photo re the cav plate. Skimming the surface getting splashed is perfect. As long as its not underwater.

There is a fine balance point, and since you also mentioned some loss of grip in turns, bringing it higher could make it lose grip too easily in turns or in a following sea, which would not be good. Also, your comment that the boat's handling and performnace now being much nicer suggests the height now is pretty close to spot on.

I usually suggest tha the test after changing height be to run a big circle at high cruise speed, about a mile across, so you get to see how the boat sits and how the prop grips in seas from all angles of the compass. And how it responds to trim changes as you go.

Its a judgement call you will have to make - you could try lifting it, but be prepared that you might have to drop it down again.

[JWBoater]

Thanks alot.. I think I will dwell on it a bit, but it seems the C-10 kit is the way to go for my wants.. notice I didn't say needs.. lols..

When you say a high cruise speed... I assume you are not at WOT.. but say like what 4k - 4.5k rpm?

[Moonlighter]

Yes, just a good solid cruise speed, say 4500 to 5000. The idea is to get a good feel for performance across all sea angles.

LOL yes we all "want" as much data as we can get in this digital age, hey!

Whether we need it or not, is not the point!

The one thing you will not have with that setup is accurate fuel economy - needs a GPS speed input to the network, then the C10 calculates mpg or in my case, living in the metric world, km/litre.

I think you will get water speed input via the interface from the pitot tube, but it isnt very accurate or reliable as we all know from watching the speedo. That would be one reason to investigate the 'Bird's NmEA2000 capability - if it is, it would just take 1 x extra T piece and a drop cable to add it to the network and you then get mpg and dte on the C10.

[JWBoater]

Sounds great.. Thanks again ...

[Nayna32]

I have a Hummingbird 898c si. I had to purchase Humminbird AS ETH Nmea‑2K Ethernet Connector to connect it to the N2k network, t adapter, and a drop cable. The only thing it will output to my Hummingbird is the Engine RPM, and Engine temperature. It also does not transmit gps, or sonar to the C10; I was not happy about that, especially after spending over $200.00 for the above components to connect it to the network.

[Moonlighter]

I have a Hummingbird 898c si. I had to purchase Humminbird AS ETH Nmea‑2K Ethernet Connector to connect it to the N2k network, t adapter, and a drop cable. The only thing it will output to my Hummingbird is the Engine RPM, and Engine temperature. It also does not transmit gps, or sonar to the C10; I was not happy about that, especially after spending over $200.00 for the above components to connect it to the network.

Not surprised -Humminbird has dropped the ball badly as far as NMEA2000 compatibility is concerned and from what you found, they are still back in the dark ages.