2014 F250a engines dying after sitting for awhile

[Plane Fish N]

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum so thank you very much for allowing me to be here.

I just bought a new boat with twin 2014 250A outboards (replacing my 2010 boat that had twin Suzuki 150 outboards) and they run great EXCEPT the following.

These engines have 280 hours on them as demo engines and used on the 2014 Twinvee boat that I also bought. Before I used the boat, I had a complete service done, zincs, low psi fuel filters, oil and oil filters, lower unit lube, impeller kits, spark plugs, thermostats, etc. If it needed or didn't need replacing, I had it done regardless.

The engines performed flawlessly however on the maiden voyage, after running for awhile (over 30 minutes) then shutting down and live baiting, then running again to a new spot, etc etc, everything was great. The last spot for fishing was done and we decided to head back to the dock.

Both engines started up perfectly and as I accelerated to about 4100 RPM, the port engine died. After 5 or 6 squeezes on the ball which was void of fuel, no issue and the engine started right back up. Seconds later, I again brought the throttles up to about 4200 RPM and the Starboard engine died. Same thing.. pumped the ball (which was also void of fuel) and it started up and no more issues all the way to the dock.

The factory said the fuel system had NO air leaks (the psi tested it supposedly) and they also replaced all the fuel hoses just in case plus put brand new squeeze bulbs (mercury because they were stiffer than the suzuki which I also agreed with ).

The very next trip out, the same exact scenario. Ran the boat to different spots, shut the engine down, restarted, ran to other spots, etc etc etc. The last spot, I accelerated the boat and one engine started to die (quickly went to pump the ball which again had NO fuel in it and it continued to run) and then when I pushed the throttles up, the other engine started to die so I quickly pumped it's ball and no more issues all the way to the dock.

Just in case, the factory replaced the 2 brand new fuel primer bulbs with 2 brand new fuel primer bulbs.

The 3rd time, I just went to lunch and after an hour, started the engines, idled at 1200 RPM about 05 or 06 minutes and one engine started to die, pumped the ball and then the other started to die and did the same. No more issues after this.

The factory now wants to mount the fuel primer bulbs (yes, they are mounted vertically already) on the other side of the fuel water separator. Right now, they are between the tank and the fuel water separator but the consensus is they should be mounted AFTER the fuel water separator.

Has anyone else had this issue? I don't believe it's the engines because all 3 times, the fuel primer bulb is void of fuel telling me the engine starved.

Do you think that mounting the primer bulbs on the OTHER side of the fuel water separator and closest to the engine would solve this problem?

Any other suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you

[Chech789]

I had this same exact issue with my 2013...Runs fine all day, stop to fish. Start to go and the engine just dies...Runs fine after pumping the fuel bulb. (my primer ball would be sucked flat sometimes but not all the time)

My bulb is mounted AFTER the water separator. My dealer did the the same as yours, replaced with a OMC ball that is ALOT stiffer. Have been out 2 times since and the issue has not come up again. We will see.

Not sure if this helps. Fingers crossed.

[Solarman]

twin motors running out of fuel.

Sounds like the fitting coming out of the fuel tank. If it has the check valve in it, it could be hanging up (restricting fuel flow), not allowing fuel to flow freely.
If you have two tanks check each of the check valves. If one tank, for both motors, they could be taking turns running out of fuel.

[Moonlighter]

Sounds like the fitting coming out of the fuel tank. If it has the check valve in it, it could be hanging up (restricting fuel flow), not allowing fuel to flow freely.
If you have two tanks check each of the check valves. If one tank, for both motors, they could be taking turns running out of fuel.

I agree that the anti-syphon valve on the tank/s could be the issue here. They are not required on outboard powered boats so why not remove them anyway?! Eliminates one potential source of issues. When problem solving issues like this, I always think it is sensible to do the simple and inexpensive things like this first!

Also, I assume that you have checked the tank breather vents to make sure that they are unobstructed? Mud wasps can make nests in the vent outlets, or the hoses can get kinked. Take the vent hose off the fitting and blow thru it to make sure it is clear. Will need to take fuel filler cap off first! Actually, if you go out again before doing anything and it does it again, before doing anything else undo the fuel tank filler and see if you hear it suck in air. Sure sign of a blocked breather vent.

We always run the primer bulbs after the water separating fuel filter. The only issue you will find is that when you change the filter element, you need to fill the new element with fuel before you reinstall it, otherwise it can be very hard to pump fuel thru the filter to get it primed.

Otherwise it seems possible that you may have a restriction in the fuel tank or a partially blocked pickup tube in the tank.

[Chech789]

My anti-syphon valve is already been bypassed(dont have one). Issue has still come up.

[Plane Fish N]

Hey everyone,

Thanks so much for your responses.. They are greatly appreciated and valid points.

One note, I was mistaken. The primer bulb is AFTER the Fuel Water Separator and they are mounted in a vertical position with the arrow pointing UP.

Just a couple of quick notes:

1. These are the second brand new primer bulbs the factory put on just incase there was an issue with the first. No help!

2. All fuel lines from the tanks (2 separate tanks to it's respective engine) to the fuel water separator have been replaced and all fuel lines from the fuel water separator to the engines have been replaced.

3. The EPA Attwood kit (including the charcoal canister) has been removed and replaced with the Blue Sky system (Perko) including the vent system.

4. Yesterday, the removed the plastic nipple coupler between the factory fuel hose and the engine fuel hose and replaced it with a brass nipple coupler and then put 2 hose clamps on top and bottom of both ends of the hose.

5. One thing they did find which honestly, I jumped on thinking they found the problem but after thinking it over, probably not but they found all 4 hose clamps (2 on the top and 2 on the bottom) of the fuel primer bulb were not tightened down AT ALL. The reason why I don't think this caused an air leak problem is first, the ones they replaced did have tightened clamps and secondly, I was able to prime both balls without them being tightened.

Well, my fingers are crossed that tightening the hose clamps, putting in the metal barb coupler and checking all the hoses fixed the problem. Time will tell.. Going out tomorrow.

Thanks again for all your help.

I noticed when I signed up for the forum, they said they have master mechanic's on here answering questions. Is there a way to contact one of them for getting their opinions?

Thanks again

[artdf175]

Not sure about the master mechanic but there are several contributors that are about as good as it gets.
Question when you have to pump to re-prime - is the bulb collapsed? From the way you stated the problem the bulbs were just void of fuel
When you think about it the only way the system will let air in is a bad connection - a hole in the fuel line - the water/fuel separator gasket bad - a bad / loose connection in the fuel pick up inside the tank
There are probably any number of ways of checking but this is what I would do
Take s piece of fuel hose and connect it to out going side of the bulb
Put the end on a clear jar and pump
The way you describe your situation you should be seeing air bubbles
Then it just a matter checking each connection until you eliminate the problem
The hose clamp you mentioned could very will be the problem
One last thought. If the hose ends are in any way expanded, I usually cut off a small section to make sure I have air tight connection
Good luck. Art

[Plane Fish N]

Not sure about the master mechanic but there are several contributors that are about as good as it gets.
Question when you have to pump to re-prime - is the bulb collapsed? From the way you stated the problem the bulbs were just void of fuel.

The ball does NOT collapse.. just void of fuel!


When you think about it the only way the system will let air in is a bad connection - a hole in the fuel line - the water/fuel separator gasket bad - a bad / loose connection in the fuel pick up inside the tank

I agree wholeheartedly with you. So far, the factory has replaced all the hoses and checked the barbs as well as double clamped everything. They have also changed the hose barbs from plastic to brass. They have pulled the Attwood EPA Fuel Tank parts and installed the Blue Sky (Perko) system which they tell me is a better system. I'm not sure if I mentioned this but it is exactly the same vein as you were talking about. The primer bulbs have hose clamps on both sides of the hose. 2 clamps on top and 2 on the bottom. Yesterday, the mechanic was on the boat after replacing the barbs from plastic to brass and found ALL OF THE HOSE CLAMPS LOOSE!!! I mean not only loose but just sliding up and down. I was able to pump the balls up but he claimed just because I didn't see any fuel leaking, it doesn't mean it wasn't airtight. He tightened them all up so tomorrow.. is the test.

There are probably any number of ways of checking but this is what I would do
Take s piece of fuel hose and connect it to out going side of the bulb
Put the end on a clear jar and pump
The way you describe your situation you should be seeing air bubbles
Then it just a matter checking each connection until you eliminate the problem
The hose clamp you mentioned could very will be the problem
One last thought. If the hose ends are in any way expanded, I usually cut off a small section to make sure I have air tight connection
Good luck. Art

[B]Art,

Great info here.. and after tomorrow.. if I still have the problem, we will perform your diagnostic test. You don't know how much this means to me from all of you for your help. Thanks again guys!

PS: My antisiphon valves were removed from the tanks as soon as I purchased the boat.

[artdf175]

Good feed back and good luck.. lets us know the results
like I referred to the gasket on the big fuel filter..
I recently changed my oil filter... have NEVER had a problem with a oil filter boat or car.... until this time
leaked all over out the gasket even though snugged up correctly and more so after the engine was turned off.. so go figure..
be worth revisiting if nothing else fixes it..
and your clamps not being tightened could be more than enough reason for air to leak in..
Art..

[Moonlighter]

Good feed back and good luck.. lets us know the results
like I referred to the gasket on the big fuel filter..
I recently changed my oil filter... have NEVER had a problem with a oil filter boat or car.... until this time
leaked all over out the gasket even though snugged up correctly and more so after the engine was turned off.. so go figure..
be worth revisiting if nothing else fixes it..
and your clamps not being tightened could be more than enough reason for air to leak in..
Art..

Hey Art, was it an OEM Suzuki filter?

Reason being that I have heard that some after-market filers have a different shaped lip on them - result is that when tightened down, the lip bottoms out on the engine before the oil seal is firmly seated.

Result: oil leaks or even worse, filter blows off under pressure.

[artdf175]

Grant. Napa filter
Maybe have to compare the faces
Only have seen positive posts before
Art

[Chech789]

So I went out this weekend and it did it again... So frustrating!..So its def not a new primer like id hope for in my situation.

[artdf175]

Check789
In your previous statement you indicated the primer bulb was flat but not always
Flat means there is an air restriction not letting the fuel tank breath
The fuel pump just pumps until a vacuum in the system overpowers the pump
Check carefully the tank venting system. Spiders and other insects have been known to build nest in the small openings
Another way of checking is when your motor starts cutting out open the cap on the fuel filler and listen for the big sucking sound -which if that is the problem the motors should jump back into action
Art

[Plane Fish N]

Ok guys.. UPDATE!

So, after going back to the factory over 6 times (45 minutes each way), having replaced every item on the fuel system, the low PSI fuel pumps, the fuel barbs, psi testing the tanks and delivery system, replacing primer bulbs again, replacing ALL the fuel lines from the tank to the fuel water separator and to the engines, etc.. they decided to call Suzuki.

Would you believe that Suzuki FINALLY admitted to knowing about this issue and it has to do with the VST tank.

Apparently, when fuel goes up into the tank, it will tend to boil (on a cool day 71F without running the heck out of the engines?????) and creates gas much like "vapor lock". They said that they have had several of the 250's with this issue and NO FIX IN SIGHT!!!

I decided that rather than have a heart attack over this issue that I was going to replace the engines. I really was going to have them install brand new Yamaha's (after 4 sets of Yami's with NO RUNNING ISSUES) but having had a set of 2010 150 zukes which ran flawlessly for 590 hours, I decided to pay thousands of dollars more and had them install 2015 300's in white!

Problem solved!!!!!! I now have 13 hours on the new engines and they run flawlessly.

My anger is directed at Suzuki. They didn't help me out at all! Crappy customer service in my opinion.

Kudos to TwinVee who just charged me the difference of the Demo 250's and brand new 300's. They installed them for free.

Anyhow, I hope this helps some other poor soul that has the "mystery" issue with their engines stalling.

Cheers

[formula233]

I thought the 250 and 300 were the same engine with just different fuel mapping in the computer. Looking at the parts catalog the 250A and 300A VST have the same part number. Got me a little worried cause I got a 250AP with only 18 hours.