df 60 wont run longer than 30 seconds

[aquamort]

Service manual i thought would show where it is... I know on a DF140 its on top of the intake manifold. The MAP sensor is responsible for fuel mixture basically.

[aquamort]

map.jpg

Here it is on a 140/90

[PaulinFL]

I have looked all over the motor and can not find the MAP sensor. Its not on the intake manifold unless its on the back side. I could not find a pressure gauge that would test over 10 psi. I did find a 15 amp fuse that was in bad shape that was in between the electrical wires from the injectors to a wire on top of the high pressure pump. I changed it out but no difference. I checked spark and I Have fire on all 4. I think at this point I've done all I can do. I guess I am taking it to the local dealer as much as I hate to. As soon as I get it back ill post what was wrong. Thanks

[aquamort]

Sorry i dont have personal experience with the 60's. Looking at the part list though it looks like the MAP sensor on the 60s is maybe bolted somewhere on top of the engine with a hose going to the intake manifold? I would suggest tracking the hoses you can find on the intake manifold and find one that goes to a sensor similar to the one in the photo i posted. Appears yours will be held in by one bolt only.

Reading back your saying its idling fine now after its warmed up a bit but will not rev under load? Does it free rev ok in neutral?

Sorry we didnt get to the bottom of your problem. I will be interested to know what is wrong. All the best.

[PaulinFL]

Well it was idling fine before I took it to the lake to test.
At ramp it took several times to stay running but once warm it idled ok. Once in forward(just enough to put it in gear) I could tell it was running rough. When I gave it throttle it bogged down. I tried several times from N to F with same results. I limped to the ramp and as I was loading it would not stay cranked.

I know I said I was going to take it to the dealer but after talking with them he said it would cost around $300 just to determine what is wrong. Then if its a HP pump its some crazy price injectors the same. So After some thought ive decided to buy the program for my motor so I can learn to work on it myself. I cant pay $600-700 dollars every trip to the dealer and I cant find anybody around that has the program.

I also just found this out and it may end up being my problem. I checked voltage at my HP pump and Im only getting 6.28. There is a 15a fuse in between the injectors and the HP pump and I am getting 12.58 at the fuse. So somewhere between the fuse and the plug in I have a voltage problem. It may be the plug. And you can only buy it through the whole wiring harness. Maybe I can find the terminals somewhere else.

[PaulinFL]

after looking closer I think it was just the way I was testing it. im getting 12.58 at the plug when i ground out my black lead on the motor. I also loosened the nut on top of the fuel rail and fuel sprayed out. So HP pump is working, VST is not flooded, LP pump is working, I have fire on all four. The diagnostic program should be here Wednesday.

I fianlly found the MAP sensor hiding behind the intake in the front of the motor.


You were talking about carbon build up. Would it be in the sensor? Do i spray carb cleaner inside where the house hooks up or are you talking about where it screws into the intake. From the piece in the below pic there is a small hose that goes to the bottom of the sensor. In my book I think its called the Air pressure sensor.

[PaulinFL]

Its idling fine and revs up smooth on muffs
View My Video

on the water it just bogs down
View My Video

[aquamort]

Looking and listening to those videos it does seem like some sort of fuel problem to me ie fuel supply or mixture - more likely (which could be caused by an electronic problem such as a sensor etc)

Re the MAP sensor id make sure all the passage ways are clear ie intake manifold connection, hose and opening into MAP sensor. I would use a carby cleaner fluid for this. Your manual should give you specs for resistances/volts etc at the sensor to check too.

Mate have you read about the hole in engine holder syndrome? Not sure if the the DF 60's suffered from it? Theres a plug that corrodes out letting exhaust gasses into cowling area starving engine of O2. Runs fine with cowl off but not on. Others on this site would surely know if your model suffered from this? Other look it up. It wouldnt be hard to see if that was the problem.

[Moonlighter]

The engine holder corrosion issue re the steel plug occurs on the DF90-140 blocks until about 2008. DF60 series not affected.

[PaulinFL]

Thanks Moonlighter
OkI got the software in yesterday and hooked it up this morning. This first thing I looked at was the codes. Im getting Injector fault. MAP Sensor 2 fault and IAC fault. I took out the MAP sensor and cleaned the piece that screwed into the intake and checked the hose. I did not know if the actual sensor could be cleaned or not?? It idles great no rough idle at all. I went to the actuator test and stopped each injector and it would run rough after each stop 1-4.
I took it to the lake and it idled great and run good at 1800-2000 rpm. over that it would bog down mostly but would surge some times . If I kept the rpms at 2000 it would run as smooth as it always has.

Keep in mind I have never used this software before sds 7.0
In the data log I first run the rpm, MAP mmhg, MAP kpa, MAP inhg and # of MAP sensor failures. IM not sure what any of these values should be but it did not show in failures will runing from idle to WOT.
I then run Inj pulse width, injected fuel amount,fuel pump duty and # of injector failures.Again I do not know what values should be but it showed no injector failures.
I run IAC valve duty and # of IAC valve duty failures and no failures showed up.
There is a list of sensors that you can run in the data log to show failures and I chose all of these and run and none showed failures.
At the end of each log Isaved the file thinking I could pull it back up and maybe share it with somebody but when I try to open it it shows up as a speadsheet and has no info in it??

CAn you reset the codes with this program? I can not find a place to reset them?

does anybody have suggestions? Could it be the actual MAP sensor is bad?

[PaulinFL]

also in the actuator test i done the IAC test. It made a tapping noise. ??

[aquamort]

Great stuff mate! Someone on here surely can help you with all the info you've supplied. I've never used the diagnosis equipment on Suzuki's so not much help there sorry.

Do you have any outboard wreckers nearby that you can maybe try another MAP sensor? Keep in mind though they can through a false code. When my VST was flooding and not running right I was getting MAP sensor code though there was nothing wrong with it. I think there is a small hole that can clog in the MAP sensor? Worth checking. Was the hose and other fitting gummed up? Have you checked the resistances/voltages of the MAP to the specs in your manual?

I personally think the MAP sensor is a good place to start. Just had another thought....have you checked your neutral switch? If its faulty your motor will think its in neutral and limit the revs to I think 3k rpm. Does it start in gear?

Also is your fuel/filters good with no water in it? Have you changed any hose set ups recently (breather hose?). And is your primer bulb collapsing after running engine?

Good luck Paul

[PaulinFL]

The software is really good and will be even better when I learn how to use it.
I dont have one around that I know of, I live in the woods and no real big town around. On the MAP sensor i read somewhere about 4v going to the sensor but didnt know which of the 3 wires to test(b/w-w-r). In the wiring diagram it does not say what is which. I wouldn't neither the hose nor the connector were gummed up. I did see some brownish color stuff when I first sprayed carb cleaner through it but after that it was clean spray. I sprayed some in it and shook it around and then let it dry out. I guess ill spray some up in the MAP Sensor I just wasnt sure what was inside it and if it would mess it up.

There is a neutral test on the SDS and it showed it was working when I switched from forward to neutral. i forgot to mention that.I tested everything that i could see just to see if I could find anything.

I took the HP fuel filter off and poured the gas out of the incoming side in a glass container and did not see anything to cause alarm. Clean gas no debri. I took the water fuel seperator off and done the same and I had just changed it out. I use only non ethanol gas.

Thanks for all your help! Hopefully ill get it figured out soon. We have a group of kids we are taking out on the pontoon next weekend, HOPEFULLY!! I planned it before all of this.

[PaulinFL]

Im begging for anybody that can look at the above info from the SDS software and let me know if they see anything that is out of place. Im fairly sure its a sensor that will not let the rpms go above 2000 rpm. I just dont know what to look for.

I have a group of kids that are counting on me taking them out on the water next weekend. Any help is much appreciated.

[PaulinFL]

I took the MAP sensoroff again and sprayed carb cleaner in it and put a piece of wire in it to make sure the throat was clear. The liquid that came out looked clean.

I forgot about this until today. The two times i took the boat out before I started having this issue I noticed that when the engine was warm it would idle high. The first time it happened was when I was flushing the engine. I had not noticed it before and after it cooled it idled fine(i do not have a rpm gauge hooked up). The next time I had it in the water we had pulled up to a restaraunt on the water and noticed that it was idling high then. After eating and engine was cool it idled fine. I notice when I had it hooked up to SDS that the idle speed was around 1000 rpm manual says 700-750 is idle speed I believe.