"White Wire" Power failure

[Doc Z....]

Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement for this white wire?? I could not find it on this forums parts for sale.

[bigfishhunter65]

I had a smilar problem with my 2018 Suzuki 4 stroke. I swapped out a new battery and must have hooked it up wrong. Wound up putting the White Wire on the negative post. Engine was dead everywhere. At the throttle. At the manual tilt/ttrim. At the key. I went on here and did some research. Found that the WW needed to be on the positive terminal. That brought up my dash instruments. Still no power to engine. I checked all fuses and everything checked out. Finally pulled the cowling and checked the 60 amp main fuse in the fuse box. Replaced it with the spare 60 amp (yellow) fuse that was provided. At that point, everything worked as it should. I suspect I blew the 60 amp fuse when I hooked the WW to the negative terminal? Anyway - glad to have this thread as it helped me track it down, and hopefully my post helps another.

[artdf175]

please start a new thread as opposed to posting notes to this Sticky
Thanks
Art

[Pachekillo87]

I've also noticed that when the engine dies, the other clocks, and their lights are still on, and the only thing that crosses my mind is that it could be some bad connection, or some earth connection, that the heat of the engine loses continuity, and stop the current ... also the previous owner had the habit of bathing the engine and connections the wd40 ...

[Pachekillo87]

Good morning, I am writing from Spain, I apologize for my bad translation. Well my name is alexander, and I own a suzuki df150, with 700 hours approx, with a cabin boat. from about a year, the engine dies for no reason, I've been reading to you and had the same problem in a suzuki df175, I've already changed the main relay, the key closer, I checked the white cable and I do not know what else can be. Yesterday I did it and can not start it until after about 15 min, I pass on the high seas, at the end I moved several wires from the fuse box and started, then I already sailed about 2 hours more and without problem, it usually happens every 2 or 3 departures, but yesterday was the worst, and I do not know what else to look at. Can it be the dielectric capacitor that is inside the fuse box and feeds the main relay? 10000 thanks in advance and sorry for disturbing you. Greetings from the Canary Islands ... Alexander

[a7ewizard]

I just had the white wire failure and want to share my symptoms and the "fix".

This is a 2006 DF 225 with about 1700 hours on it. It is my vacation boat in Baja which is trailer stored.

In restrospect, my throttle trim switch would sometimes be intermittent when trimming out but always work trimming in ( assumed it was the switch contact failing). When trimming, the volt meter would jump. More than it should.

I arrived a few days ago and was prepping my boat for launch. I switched on a battery but could not lower the engine with throttle trim but could with the engine switch. Turning the ignition key to run and gauges remained dead. I'm not sure of the order I did things but I checked fuses under the cowl, switched batteries to all, and looked for loose wires inside my console. Eventually, the ignition switch worked. Probably low voltage batteries that simply need a good run. Volts read about 10.

The engine started right up. Took the boat for a quick spin. Voltmeter still reading 10! I have an hour meter installed. With each tick, it would cause a jump in the other gauges. Not good, back to the dock! Both batteries are 5 years old. Doubtful that both go bad at same time. I buy 2 new batteries and install them but my results remain the same!

Without a multi-meter, I can't diagnose things. I do know that all my pumps and high draw circuits work fine. Bad VM?. Low voltage at my ignition switch? Bad charging circuit? With the day getting late and being drenched in sweat, I decide to move th boat from the launch dock to my assigned slip. I'll continue with trouble shooting in the morning.

As I motor along, I hit the trim switch a few times. The VM is showing larger spikes with it reaching 12+ then settles back at 10. Suddenly as I'm doing this trimming, the engine cuts off completely. Dead in the water. No life in the ignition switch. Dead and deader!

I continue the next morning. Through all of this there are no blown fuses, evidence of corrosion or loose connections. I clean all wire ends; engine grounds, starter posts, battery, perko switch, ignition.

Finally call in my mechanic with the knowledge and the tools. Yes. Low or no voltage at the white wire at the switch. He diagnoses a break in the white wire in the main harness. His fix is to pull power off the positive buss at the console and attach it to the same ignition stud that has the white wire connected. Problems solved. Good VM readings. Good system charging. Even the throttle trim switch works as it should!

He suggests installing a new harness. Time and expense. I am inclined to redo his fix with a properly colored and fused jumper.

[Harper]

Probably a dumb question but is an ECU (engine control unit) the same as an ECM? I saw both terms used in the very first post &, after that, only ECM has been used. Just wondering. And trying to learn. Thanks..
John

Same thing, John.

[TxAg66]

Probably a dumb question but is an ECU (engine control unit) the same as an ECM? I saw both terms used in the very first post &, after that, only ECM has been used. Just wondering. And trying to learn. Thanks..
John

[artdf175]

I don't want someone to think I ignored your questions.. but we did it through a PM..
Art
update Nov 17
this owner has a 2009 - 115HP
he did not find the problem -exactly- but by wiring around the original WW, through a separate fuse panel to the WW on the key switch - he was back up and running
This model is wired differently than the larger HP engines
Updating the original 'sticky' to reflect this new information on the wiring
Art

[Catisleguy]

Is my "Fix" wrong?

Thanks to Artdf175 for this post
subj: "White Wire" electrical issues -power source to the ECM

When you turn the ignition switch and nothing happens. (Battery fully charged)

This is one issue that surfaces on a regular basis and this generally deals with a loss of power source to the "engine control unit" (ECU).
With NO power to the ECM, the engine either stops (if running at the time) or will not start.
This situation usually effects the trim switch on the remote, which also fails to function.


Some background:
Generally, the battery switch (Perko type) has a short pig-tail with a connection to a "white wire" (WW). This WW feeds the power to the ignition and remote control trim switches. In some wiring configurations it can also be the power feed to the dash that powers up the boats other electronics. Note - this WW also has an inline 15A fuse. The WW can be connected directly to the positive battery terminal. Have found it can be tied into the main power lead to the engine, on the starter motor. (not recommended as this configuration can cause electrical spikes to the ECM.)
The WW splits pre-ignition switch and powers the ECM relay coil.
From the ignition switch "ON" position, the gray wire feeds back to the ECM -and is the power source for the ECM.

First let's look at the trim switch.
You hit the remote trim switch to trim the engine up/down and nothing is working. The wiring to the trim switch relay is independent of the ignition wiring but shares the same WW power feed. This allows you to raise and lower the engine without turning on the ignition. When it doesn't work- the cause will usually be related to a power failure with the WW. It can be the switch, but that seems to be rare. The trim switch on side of the engine operates independently from a different power source.

Next: turn the ignition to start/run - no response.
The ignition switch does several things- in the 'ON' position it is the primary power source to the ECM. At this point, for 4 cycle engines, a relay turns on the high pressure fuel pump. You should hear this pump. Obviously when the key is turned to 'START'- the starter relay engages and through the engines main power source, the starter motor starts the engine. One step before the starter kicks in, the 'neutral' switch must be adjusted correctly, so as to prevent the engine from starting if it is in gear. However, any interruption in power to the WW- none of this happens.
.
So what has gone wrong when these two situations happen? Usually - a lack of continuity of power in the WW or a ground wire failure.

Most common Reasons:
1) Spliced connections that have gone bad. Connectors not waterproofed that allow for unseen corrosion.
2) Wiring connectors have separated
3) Ground wire fails.
4) blown fuse

If you have power to one and not the other:
5) Ignition switch that has become defective or broken
6) If you have power to the ECM and starter fails to kick in, one of several more reasons can relate to the neutral switch.

Intermittent power loss can be difficult to find.. In my case, the wire connector to the WW off the battery switch started to fail. I would be running along, hit a wave and the engine would die. Or come up to a dock and put it in idle .. just dies and not start. Again, in my case, the WW is the power source to the dash and other electronics. The depth finder would flicker off, sometimes come back on, but mostly have to restart it. Then one day in my driveway, nothing worked - period. Started pulling wires to track and identify each one and what did they operate. Pulling on a short red wire off the back of the battery switch - the wire connector separated.. This was the power feed to the WW. Internally inside the wire connector -the wire ends were totally corroded at this point. Fixed the problem and was back in business.

Hope this little summary will be helpful..

Question, as stated above,

The WW "splits pre-ignition" switch and powers the ECM relay coil.
From the ignition switch "ON" position, the gray wire feeds back to the ECM -and is the power source for the ECM.

If this is correct, then should I assume I was wrong when my fix was to disconnect the WW at the fused connector and abandon and terminate it before the ignition switch, and then power the WW before the switch with a 15 amp fused wire from my panel?

Does this mean my ECM relay coil has no power now and before it Always had power regardless of the ignition switch?

[artdf175]

Warren. thanks for the time and input.
just a couple of thoughts. and I do not know the circuit panel you used except from comments from others that give it very high marks.
a couple of observations
the white wire should terminate at the key switch - when you turn the key to the 'on' position is when the power then travels back to the ECM
the whitewire should connect at your circuit panel and not directly off a battery post
at the bottom of this link there is some info on the wire coloring:

http://www.suzukioutboardforum.com/s...ey-switch.html

there is a reason for the white wire not being connected to the main power source for the engine. The ECM is very sensitive to voltage drops. Voltage upon starting can can give power fluctuations that may be undesirable

Your power trim on the remote is designed to work regardless of the key being in the on position. you may find a time when it is undesirable to turn the key on just to raise/lower the engine

Art

[a7ewizard]

Mitigating ECU power lead failures.....

I just finished installing and rigging my new 2017 DF300AP. My installation was an I/O to bracketed Suzuki conversion. I had read threads on various forums regarding "White Wire" failures (as talked about in this thread).

One of my goals in this conversion was to also separate the electricals into 2 separate circuits; an engine circuit and a house/electronics circuit. Previously, everytime I started my engine, my GPS plotter/sonar would die and needed to be started. That was very annoying.

The ECU power leads are very thin (maybe 22 gauge) and have connectors to fit the threaded terminals of marine batteries. Battery terminals are the most corrosion prone point of the entire system and to connect these thin leads here is asking for trouble IMO. There must be a better way........

So, here is how I rigged my engine and I have encountered no problems:
I used a Blue Seas dual circuit battery switch with the combine batteries option (should the house side need to jump the engine side). I mounted this high on the transom with a separate access panel. Along with the main engine positive lead, I connected the white wire lead to the same post. Thus, the ECU is only hot when the battery switch is turned on. The engine trim only works with the battery switch on (at engine) and works with the key switch on (at throttle). Since my battery switch access is so easy, this is not an inconvenience to me.

The ECU ground lead I connected to the negative side of the buss bar; that is also mounted high on the inside of the transom to reduce exposure. Since this is a ground, it doesn't matter that this buss is on the house side. In fact, for a dual battery installation, the Suzuki rigging manual has the 2 battery negative terminals connected to each other.

The pink auxiliary charging lead I connected to the house/electronics post of the battery switch. While I could have simply connected this to the corresponding battery terminal, I choose to cut the excess cable and to tidy up the installation. I used a voltmeter to check the charge at both batteries and there is negligible difference.

Finally, because I might have to combine the batteries in a dead engine battery situation, the house/electronics circuit needed to be stout enough to tolerate a heavy starting load. For this I ran 2 gauge cable from the house battery positive terminal to the battery switch post for this circuit.

I shortened the engine cables and added crimped terminal connectors with shrink wrap. I avoided the coiled and wire tied excess cable look to the maximum extent possible. I did not shorten the "white wire" for simplicity and beacause it is largely out-of -the way and stowed near the top of the electricals.

I wanted to share my ideas and outcome should this be of help to some one else.

Warren

[artdf175]

http://www.suzukioutboardforum.com/s...ey-switch.html

Info at bottom of the thread re wiring colors and circuits

[artdf175]

This forum was great in helping me find my "white wire" problem with my DF40 pontoon boat. Turned out to be a bad splice in a cable run from the motor under the boat to the console and remote.
Thanks to all the contributors!

Perfect feedback
Thanks for sharing
Art

[LG-Pontoon]

This forum was great in helping me find my "white wire" problem with my DF40 pontoon boat. Turned out to be a bad splice in a cable run from the motor under the boat to the console and remote.
Thanks to all the contributors!