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"White Wire" Power failure

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  • Plumber1969
    replied
    I have a 2020 DF350. A few days ago I though I was having a water pump issue but nothing made since. I posted about the water issue earlier this week. While I was flushing the motor in a tank, the motor will shut off after 5 minutes or so then fire back up on its own, without me touching the engine control panel assembly start/stop button. I was convinced, the motor was smarter than me and shutting itself off due to a temperature issue, even though it never showed above 150 degrees. Yesterday, I put it in the water and it did not want to start at all. Changed batteries
    (both batteries show 12.9 and 12.8 respectively at rest and 13.7 to 14.1 while underway) at the perko switch and the engine finally started. I hear the fuel pump prime and all my electronics are working, just don't have any fire from the start/stop button. I will investigate this WW issue this evening and I appreciate all of this information. Ironically enough, my previous boat with the DF 200 never had a single issue. That engine control panel assembly start/stop button is $360 and I don't want to be throwing money at parts if it is bad. Also, the trim switch on the throttle will not work without the key in the on position.
    Last edited by Plumber1969; 06-30-2021, 07:46 AM.

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  • Doc Z....
    replied
    Never mind....found it.
    https://www.boats.net/product/suzuki/36625-93J10

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  • Moonlighter
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc Z.... View Post
    Anyone know the part number for this white wire to order one ??
    I dont think anyone has ever bothered to try to find the original part when replacing it.

    Just use a similar gauge marine wire.

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  • Doc Z....
    replied
    Anyone know the part number for this white wire to order one ??

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  • Doc Z....
    replied
    This is a great topic and it seems that non of the mechanics who work on these engines know.........my Starboard engine would not start so I went right to the white wire which was reading 12v on the battery side but on 5v on the motor side so I cut it in 3 inch sections to ohm test it....well....i found a section just outside the motor cowl that was green and rotted on the inside....no visible cuts in the sheathing but there much have been a pinhole. Amazing. Had it not been for this post I would have been clueless as were all the Suzuki mechanics that worked on it. Basically if the key has no power when you turn it and the trim/tilt motor does not work.......check the White Wire.

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  • PaulinFL
    replied
    1999 DF 60
    Thanks for this info. I was getting no power to the motor and couldn't figure out why. I ended up finding the WW at the plug on the motor was corroded. Looked fine from the outside but it pulled out of the plug. Got it fixed today. Thanks

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  • fredurq
    replied
    White wire fix for me, slight corrosion on one leg of the 15 amp mini fuse right before the ring terminal that's on the positive post of the starting battery for that engine. 2018 140DF.
    No response from the ignition switch and no remote trim/tilt response
    . IMG_0889 (1).jpg
    Thank you for the pointers that made me look that way.
    Last edited by fredurq; 02-03-2021, 09:31 PM.

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  • rfranklin0789
    replied
    Originally posted by boats.net View Post
    Thanks to Artdf175 for this post
    subj: "White Wire" electrical issues -power source to the ECM

    When you turn the ignition switch and nothing happens. (Battery fully charged)

    This is one issue that surfaces on a regular basis and this generally deals with a loss of power source to the "engine control unit" (ECU).
    With NO power to the ECM, the engine either stops (if running at the time) or will not start.
    This situation usually effects the trim switch on the remote, which also fails to function.


    Some background:
    Generally, the battery switch (Perko type) has a short pig-tail with a connection to a "white wire" (WW). This WW feeds the power to the ignition and remote control trim switches. In some wiring configurations it can also be the power feed to the dash that powers up the boats other electronics. Note - this WW also has an inline 15A fuse. The WW can be connected directly to the positive battery terminal. Have found it can be tied into the main power lead to the engine, on the starter motor. (not recommended as this configuration can cause electrical spikes to the ECM.)
    The WW splits pre-ignition switch and powers the ECM relay coil.
    From the ignition switch "ON" position, the gray wire feeds back to the ECM -and is the power source for the ECM.

    First let's look at the trim switch.
    You hit the remote trim switch to trim the engine up/down and nothing is working. The wiring to the trim switch relay is independent of the ignition wiring but shares the same WW power feed. This allows you to raise and lower the engine without turning on the ignition. When it doesn't work- the cause will usually be related to a power failure with the WW. It can be the switch, but that seems to be rare. The trim switch on side of the engine operates independently from a different power source.

    Next: turn the ignition to start/run - no response.
    The ignition switch does several things- in the 'ON' position it is the primary power source to the ECM. At this point, for 4 cycle engines, a relay turns on the high pressure fuel pump. You should hear this pump. Obviously when the key is turned to 'START'- the starter relay engages and through the engines main power source, the starter motor starts the engine. One step before the starter kicks in, the 'neutral' switch must be adjusted correctly, so as to prevent the engine from starting if it is in gear. However, any interruption in power to the WW- none of this happens.
    .
    So what has gone wrong when these two situations happen? Usually - a lack of continuity of power in the WW or a ground wire failure.

    Most common Reasons:
    1) Spliced connections that have gone bad. Connectors not waterproofed that allow for unseen corrosion.
    2) Wiring connectors have separated
    3) Ground wire fails.
    4) blown fuse

    If you have power to one and not the other:
    5) Ignition switch that has become defective or broken
    6) If you have power to the ECM and starter fails to kick in, one of several more reasons can relate to the neutral switch.

    Intermittent power loss can be difficult to find.. In my case, the wire connector to the WW off the battery switch started to fail. I would be running along, hit a wave and the engine would die. Or come up to a dock and put it in idle .. just dies and not start. Again, in my case, the WW is the power source to the dash and other electronics. The depth finder would flicker off, sometimes come back on, but mostly have to restart it. Then one day in my driveway, nothing worked - period. Started pulling wires to track and identify each one and what did they operate. Pulling on a short red wire off the back of the battery switch - the wire connector separated.. This was the power feed to the WW. Internally inside the wire connector -the wire ends were totally corroded at this point. Fixed the problem and was back in business.

    - update Nov 2017-
    thanks to Catislaguy there is updated info for some smaller HP models
    He has a 2009 DF115HP
    The primary WW off the battery to the key switch is the same but that is also where it stops.
    The ECM in this smaller HP engine is powered of the Hot wire on the starter motor. Connects to the same terminal where the primary battery cable terminates.
    The 'on' and 'start' position of the Key Switch - power goes to the Gray wire. The Gray wire then proceeds to power just about everything on the engine, but the ECM.
    So if you turn the Key Switch -on- and nothing happens -- still need to start with #1 - fuse box; then #2 the WW; #3 the key switch itself; #4 is the Gray wire hot? if so the engine should run. If not - go back to #1 and start over.
    This person, from a separate fuse panel, wired around the WW and everything worked -but why?
    Answer was the ECM power source is different.
    Art





    Hope this little summary will be helpful..
    This is really great info! Im having similar problems now with my 90hp suzuki, so ive been following your post about the white wire. I actually made another forum post called 90hp suzuki starting issues but havent got many responses.
    https://www.suzukioutboardforum.com/...tarting-issues

    but i was wondering, and this is probably in your thread, but where does the white wire start and where does it go to? For me I found it at the battteries with a 15 amp fuse, and it looks to be going back to the console, got so many wires its really hard to tell. The weird part about my boat is when it starts it runs perfect, electronics don't flicker ,bilge, light always work etc, doesn't turn off randomly. Basically sometimes it just decides to start and other times it wont do anything besides all the electronics work (bildge,depth finder, lights etc)

    Thank you in advance!

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  • Moonlighter
    replied
    Yes the “sub cable” is whats often referred to as the white wire. Check that fuse holder for corrosion inside.

    Cant offer further suggestions r ethe teim issue, hopefully someone else will chime in.

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  • jc92784
    replied
    New to this forum.

    Background:
    Twin 2016 DF200APs, Recently purchased the boat as a third owner. Port side engine would not start after running perfectly the day before so I assumed low voltage and checked batteries. There are three with one used for "house" power for automatic bilge and baitwell.

    Load tested batteries and charged them all the way up. They are still within warranty. Checked and cleaned all connections to batteries. Looked at my Suzuki 2016 DF200AP owners manual on Battery Installation. They show a Sub Cable on page 14 that "supplies voltage to the Engine Control System". They also state that the fuse is a 30A (15x2?). I'm assuming that's the "White Wire" because it is white and has a picture of the fuse that looks exactly like mine. From what I can see, it is within a braided new looking long harness and runs over and up to the switch.

    My trim switch on the throttle has NEVER worked without turning the key switch on and it lifts both motors usually. That being said the port side engine will not lift or start. I hear a faint clicking noise like it is trying but not enough voltage. The manual switch on the motor results in the same clicking noise. Putting the ECM aside for a second and focusing on the trim operation should I check fuses on the motor first before getting into the switch? I read here that the engine mounted trim gets power from a difference source so I figured I would try to fix that first. The port engine did take a slight blow from a forklift operator that damaged the cowling but it has run fine since then. It's possible something was knocked lose but I haven't inspected yet.

    The boat's wiring is messy with older wiring not connected to anything still present from previous setup(s). Suzuki motors are a repower of an older 28' Contender and have been awesome until recently.

    Jay

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  • Doc Z....
    replied
    Originally posted by Moonlighter View Post


    just replace with same gauge marine (tinned) wire.
    I thought about that but I wasn't sure if it would void my Suzuki warranty since I know they are very picky about things.........I wanted to keep the same type of 15 amp fuse, etc so I can't believe they are not readily available but if I have to I will make a new one myself.

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  • Moonlighter
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc Z.... View Post
    Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement for this white wire?? I could not find it on this forums parts for sale.

    just replace with same gauge marine (tinned) wire.

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  • Doc Z....
    replied
    Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement for this white wire?? I could not find it on this forums parts for sale.

    Leave a comment:


  • bigfishhunter65
    replied
    I had a smilar problem with my 2018 Suzuki 4 stroke. I swapped out a new battery and must have hooked it up wrong. Wound up putting the White Wire on the negative post. Engine was dead everywhere. At the throttle. At the manual tilt/ttrim. At the key. I went on here and did some research. Found that the WW needed to be on the positive terminal. That brought up my dash instruments. Still no power to engine. I checked all fuses and everything checked out. Finally pulled the cowling and checked the 60 amp main fuse in the fuse box. Replaced it with the spare 60 amp (yellow) fuse that was provided. At that point, everything worked as it should. I suspect I blew the 60 amp fuse when I hooked the WW to the negative terminal? Anyway - glad to have this thread as it helped me track it down, and hopefully my post helps another.

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  • artdf175
    replied
    please start a new thread as opposed to posting notes to this Sticky
    Thanks
    Art

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