Is this peeing dangerously weak?

[Mastiff]

My 2012 (which doesn't have the nut with the hole at the end, I have heard that those have more pressure) seems a bit weak in the pee. Is this normal, or does it mean an impeller change in the very near future. I have never really taken notice before, I bought the motor on a boat last July, and I have only seen that "OK; there's something coming", but compared to my two earlier motors (an old Yamaha 55 that could be used as a pressure washer and a Merc Optimax, which was somewhere between), it's a bit weak.

tissehull Suzuki.png

[Moonlighter]

Yes that is very weak.

I would do 2 things.

First is to get a 2’ length of heavy 200lb mono or weed eater line and, with the engine running in water, stick the line up the telltale hole and wriggle it around to see if there is some sand or grit that is causing a partial blockage.

Secondly, I would (already) have done a full service on that engine including a compete water pump kit, not just the impeller. Yo have had the engine almost a year and who knows when the engine was last serviced or when the pump was last changed out- it needs to be checked annually and replaced at least every 2 years.

I would certainly not run the engine at speed with a pump pushing out so little water as in that video.

Suzuki sells full service kits that are specific to the hp and year engine. If you do your own servicing then it would be well worth getting that kit and completing the service using all the parts in the kit.

[Mastiff]

Thanks! I have actually used it at speed before this answer came (necessary trip), and no warning about heat. I did a full service without the impeller last fall because the engine was serviced two years before I got it, and it had been used very little since that, I figured I could wait until the full service the coming fall to do the impeller. I haven't done impeller change before (my first Yam didn't have one in the 5-6 years I had it, no problems with that, and my Optimax had one in the middle of the four years I had it when they had to take off the lower unit because the shifting shaft got stuck), but I have seen it on YouTube, so I could probably manage. But since my trailer is away for repairs and may take a while I will check if I can borrow one to do this, if the wead eater line doesn't help.

Is this the correct way for a 2012?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evgjzuQVVCg

Edit: I tried with the weed eater thing, and it didn't do anything. So I have ordered a full service kit plus full impeller kit. Even if it's only half a year since my last service I will do it because I have been planning to sell my trailer (it's huge for that 24' boat and taking up too much space, and I only use it for service, I fish all year even if it gets cold here in Norway). But I can't get it done until in two weeks, I think, because I need to do the wheel bearings and brakes on the trailer, and one wheel's off. Is it safe to use the engine in slow mode? Maybe up to 2000 RPM's, or is that dangerous too? I have not had any temperature warnings, and it doesn't seem to suffer or make any strange noises.

[Mastiff]

Oh, btw, what is that port to the left for? There is no water coming out of that. Is it for flushing or something?

[Moonlighter]

Port to the left of telltale is for exhaust.

Im pretty sure that the service kits come complete with water pump kit so probably no need to order one separately. Check the service kit contents to be sure.

As to whether its safe to use or not, thats a judgement call you will have to make yourself....

Impellers have been known to harden and get a set in them after 3 years with little use.

Also, there is a real risk in salt water use of the lower leg bolts being stuck due to corrosion if the leg is not dropped every 12-18 months, and if you are going to do that, you might as well do the pump kit.

Such a critical component for the engine, it just makes good sense to have it in the best possible condition.

[Mastiff]

Thanks! And here I thought all the exhaust came out through the lower unit. But the configurable service kits that are sold here in Norway (not original, the one that's considered the best third party) can only be configured with the impeller itself, so I ordered with the plate and everything. I just hope I won't have too much problems dropping the lower unit. I'll have marine grease and a paint brush ready for the shafts.

[Mastiff]

And now I'm really puzzled! I replaced the impeller, plate and bowl. I had to fight the impeller to get it over the half moon spline (yes, I am sure I had it the right way), it wasn't as easy as the YouTube videos make it out to be... First time I put on the pump cover, the shaft was almost impossible to turn. I took it off again, put the old impeller on top of the new, the bowl over that again and my 210 lbs full force. I was able to turn the shaft then without too much power. Unfortunately I didn't check how much power I had to use to turn it before the change, but I figured it would adjust itself towards the point of least resistance. Oh, and yes, I did do it clockwise, and I did put marine grease in the bowl and on the shaft and impeller. The old impeller was not bad at all, no cracks, no missing parts. A bit stiffer in the arms then the new, but I'm guessing that's natural. This is how it looked when it was still on:



Except for the power needed to get the impeller in place I was very positively surprised over how easy this really was. Which of course made me far too optimistic, and that had to crash... Because then I started it up in a low plastic barrel with the water level maybe an inch above the water intake. I had the hose running all the time to avoid it going further down. I could see water jetting towards the back of the barrel, and felt the water coming out around of the propeller shaft with my hand. But nothing from the tell tale at all. I ran it for around 10-15 minutes, and it got warm enough for the oil to run appropriately thin when I opened the drain plugout (I'm doing a full on service), but at no time was there anything coming from the tell tale hole. I tried revving a bit (before draining the oil, obviously...), but that only splashed more water out of the barrel. Is that because it was running in free, or do I have to start hunting for a problem somewhere in the tell tale lines?

Also, more out of curiosity there is a rubber line at the front of the lower unit (in front of the shifter shaft) that goes up to the powerhead, but it doesn't seem to be connected to anything, because there's a plastic plug in it. What is that for?

[Moonlighter]

When running the engine in a barrel you must have the engine deep enough so that the water pump is submerged - water level should be at least 100mm (4” to our American friends) ABOVE THE ANTI VENT PLATE.

The AV plate is the largest plate, the one immediately above the prop. Hopefully you havent burnt the new impeller already but….

That rubber line is for the speedometer. Obviously since its plugged there is no speedo fitted to that boat.

[Mastiff]

Really? That explains it! I thought it was enough to have it above the water intakes. Do you think it's most likely that I have burnt the impeller by this mistake, or is the fact that I could feel water coming out around the prop shaft my saving grace in this idiocy? Edit: The water jet out of the shaft was enough to splash over the top of the barrel, which is why I left the water hose running in there.

And thanks, I have a chart plotter where the GPS is showing the speed, so no speedo here. Is that pressure based?

Finally, what should be my next move? To try with one of these flush "headsets" and see if there's a healthy jet out of the telltale hole when I fire it up, or should I remove the lower unit again and inspect the impeller again? Perhaps with an extra impeller handy?

[Moonlighter]

Yes, really! Needs to be in water deep enough so the pump is under the water. Thats probably been your pressure problem all along. There have been many posts here on this forum about the same thing.

eg here is another one on the front page just now: https://www.suzukioutboardforum.com/...n-new-df9-9btl

Now whether youve damaged the impeller is hard to say.

Can you get the motor deeper into the barrel or a bigger barrel?

I think youve got 2 choices - get the motor in deeper or on muffs (see below) and test to see if its got a good strong flow. Or, pull the leg and see if the tips are melted… if it was me I would do the first and if its look like its pumping good and strong, its probably fine.

Any doubts after that test, only one thing can be done. Leg gets dropped and impeller replaced again.

MUFFS
My Suzuki dealer recommended that I use the small round soft muffs, and to put them on FROM THE PROP end, not from the back of the leg. It does seem odd to put them on that way, and it means you cannot run the engine in gear. But it really helps keep them seated well over the intakes MUCH better than putting them on from the leading end of the gearcase.

These small muffs on my DF115 work better than any others that I have tried. Even the large rectangular double feed models.

They are what he uses on all Suzukis at the dealership when servicing.

Im sure they will work well on your 140 given that its basically the same leg as my 115. They are also just about the cheapest muffs you can get. Just remember, small, round and soft rubber cups. And really good water pressure from the hose.

SPEEDO
Yes it works off water pressure. Look at the leading edge of the leg and you will find a really small hole. Thats the pitot tube and its where the water pressure is detected. Connects to that tube which would then run to the back of the speedo of you had one.

[Mastiff]

Thank you very much! Today I could probably run it without anything with the rain we're having today... But I'm going to get back to it tomorrow, and then I'll get one of those muffs. Thanks for the tips about the best way to mount that! The worst part is that I know I have one somewhere (for a previous motor), but I can't find it after a house move four years ago... Still these are only around 12 dollars, I'm pretty sure this is the one you mean:



And i fyou meant that the motor is to high when the boat is in the water (since my pressure problem started when I was on the water and was the reason I took the boat up) I don't think so. Look at these pics. I just took between two rain and thunder showers. You can see on the one to the left that the main anti cav plate is the exact same height as the bottom of the boat, and that puts the red part of it well below water. The pump on the right is for washing the inside of the boat when I have pulled crawfish pots, which usually are full of mud (because the salt water crawfish live in mud). And the swinger for the depth finder to the left is well blow water too. Also on the side pic you can see that there has been stuff growing on the bottom 6-7 cm of the engine mount. So that should be no problem for the water pump.




I was pretty generous with the grease when I mounted the impeller, so that would probably help me too. So bottom line I'll get the impeller when I get the muffs, an extra impeller is cheaper than having to take an hour or two plus diesel to drive an extra trip to get one, and I can use it next spring.Then I'll do the muff test, and I'll clean out the elbow and line too. If that doesn't help I'll pull the lower unit again. At least I now know how it's done!

[Mastiff]

I got the muffs, and I took off the hose to the telltale from the engine block. It was easy to blow through. I used a piece of thin power wire and pushed that in and out of the elbow from the engine block, which supposedly is one of first thigs to be blocked on these. But there was nothing that I could see on the tip of the wire. And I'm still not impressed with the telltale, it seems to be exactly the same as it was before I took the boat up to do the service. This is on high idle, 1000 RPM, right after I started it. So it isn't really warm yet. But should that matter? Isn't the water pumped anyway, and the thermostat only routes it through the block or not?

[Mastiff]

[Mastiff]

[Mastiff]

I guess I better replace the water pressure valve and the thermostat, right? If they're stuck open, that's not very good for my use, since I have the boat all year and run it in freezing, Norwegian weather,