Water pump grommet

[Winkj63]

Hi everyone! I’ve enjoyed reading thru the forums and I have a question for the more experienced members.

I have a df9.9 (1999) and I just replaced the entire water pump. My question is about the water pump casing grommet where the drive shaft exits the housing. Is that grommet supposed to fit tightly around the drive shaft? Mine does not- there’s a 1/16+ gap all the way around between the grommet and the shaft. Wouldn’t this let water pump past the grommet and up the driveshaft channel in the middle housing?
I have water leaking out at the lower swivel mount from holes that apparently penetrate the channel inside the middle housing where the drive shaft is. I don’t think water is supposed to leak out from there.
The motor has a strong tell tale, good cooling, the gearbox holds pressure and overall it’s a great running old Suzuki. Here’s the info on the motor:

serial# 00991F-971353
df9.9ELX
grommet is genuine Suzuki part # 17417-93911

[briscoe]

Have you looked up the part on this site? I just looked and it calls out #8, water pump case bushing.

[Winkj63]

Hey briscoe,
Yes I have looked up the part on this site. In fact every site I look it up on shows the same part and part number.
It’s actually #2, water pump casing grommet. The one on top where the driveshaft exits the casing although I also replaced the #8 bushing which is for the water tube. That one fits great.
The part is listed as 17417-93911. That’s the newest version of the grommet and the one that’s available. The original # was 17417-93910.
I’ve seen videos of a handful of other df9.9 motors leaking from the same place so I’m not the only one with this problem- somebody must know what’s going on.
The water pump works great and the leaking actually increased after I put in the new pump so I assume it has better pressure than the old one!

[CsabaC]

Hi, did you solved this issue? I have the same problem with my suzuki df 15 (2001).I bought it 3 weeks ago and there was problem with pump case - demaged the water inlet housing. After replacement started the water leaking out at the lower swivel mount from holes as mentioned above. The only gasket I didn't replace was the part 17564-93901- bush,water Pump Case. I also tested the upper part of the water tube and water circuit, but there is no leakage.
I assume that the only leak can only be around that unchanged gasket. But this is just my assumption since the delivery of mentioned gasket is by us more then 2 weeks.

[Winkj63]

Hey CsabaC,
I looked up the bushing you mentioned for your df15. That bushing is for the water tube and if it leaked from there the water would flow down into the lower end casing and out of the prop and you’d lose water flow/pressure up the water tube to the oil pan/power unit.
My service manual covers both df9.9 and df15 so I’m going to assume the middle housing/leg/driveshaft housing are the same for both models. The driveshaft grommet on top of the water pump casing should seat against the bottom of the round channel for the driveshaft and the water tube should fit into the bushing you mentioned when bolting the lower end back on. That round chamber through the middle housing is sealed at the crankcase/oil pan and at the oil pan/middle housing by the gaskets. It’s isolated from the exhaust and cooling water all the way down to the water pump where the grommet around the shaft should seal it there. Only the two bolt holes at the lower swivel mount are open into that channel. There are no other penetrations inside the housing. Or maybe they are weep holes?
Was the old drive shaft grommet on top of your water pump casing snug around the shaft? Is the new one snug? Mine had a big gap between the grommet and the driveshaft before I replaced it and after I replaced the whole pump it only increased the leak. I’m guessing because the new pump pumps more water than the old worn out one. There isn’t any other seal around the shaft until you get down to the water pump lower inlet housing. Below that one is the oil seal for the gear case. The impeller obviously doesn’t seal against the top of the casing - if it did it wouldn’t leak like it is.
Our motors use the same water pump casing and seals so that makes sense that yours now leaks too. That top grommet at the shaft can’t be the right size but I can’t get an answer on it from Browns Point Marine or Crowleys marine and still no answer from 3 different forums. I’ll keep searching and let you know what I find.

[CsabaC]

Hey Winkj63,

you analyzed it like I did. I made a test with drilling machine with lower unit.There are 2 points were water is leaking. Around the shaft, gasket is new and there is gap also by me. But i think this is not a problem.
Second is by water tube and gasket. There is water coming up not down, since it is under pressure. And after manipulating with this gasket, the water pressure was changed by me.
Less water was coming out from "pee pipe" at top and leaking was stronger. Then i manipulated with gasket and it was oposite. More water from "pee pipe" and less leaking.
I thing the gasket around the shaft does not fit perfectly to upper body and doesnt seal. Water is coming by me through the 2 small holes and the big one. See the pictures.
So from my point of view, this are the possible issues:

1. seal around the shaft is not sealing
2. Gasket between around the water tube is not sealing and water is pressurized up around
3. The impeller body should create a theoretically on the top of the case in the housing a tightness and reduce the leaking by shaft. I was thinking that my impeller has not the perfect high. Impeller was new, but bought by previous owner. I only roughly measered the dimensions and it fits.

[CsabaC]

Picture uploaded.
3th picture - greem items are new.

[Winkj63]

0759296D-3B5B-47D8-B72D-263C87CE0F24.jpeg4A0E2255-B94A-41E2-AF85-D146E582FE12.jpegD58E7FE7-B715-48AE-81CA-FDD461F61B14.jpegBD28621C-4171-4A5C-BCC9-4FD40223B7AE.jpeg
the diagram shows all the parts I replaced.

the first pic isn’t my engine but it’s white so it makes it easier to see what I’m talking about. It shows the mounting point with the lower swivel mount removed. You can see the two holes clearly.

The smaller front bushing is the water tube bushing that seals the pump casing to the water tube. Leaking from there will fall down into the lower unit and exit thru the prop.
The larger grommet around the drive shaft should seal against drive shaft channel in the middle housing so that leaking there would go up the channel to the back of the swivel mount.
Top pic shows the two holes where the leak is actually coming out.

You can see the clean areas on this pic of a dirty white housing where the bushing was on the water tube, where the gasket between the lower unit and middle section was, where the grommet in question sealed against the channel for the drive shaft and where the exhaust seal was. Any water that gets into the cavity for the shift linkage comes out of the small weep hole on the lower unit casing.

the only way I can see water getting up the two holes at the mount is from around the drive shaft grommet where it should seal to the shaft. What am I missing!

[CsabaC]

I have different arrangement of drive shaft channel in the middle housing.I made during the night some pics, but the quality is not good, so there is not possible to see the space arrangment of drive shaft channel.
In my case this 2 holes are directly entering to drive shaft channel. So in every case is the water getting to this channel. In this case the leakproof seal of larger grommet around the drive shaft doesn't make sense, since then would the waters stay in the channel.
I will dismantle the lower unit and i make some pics during the day.
But on you tube I saw that practicaly every older suzuki df 9.9-15 is leaking at that parts. It would be fine to have a feedback from suzuki service or dealer. Unfortunately here in my country they don't give me an answer. Answer is bring the outoard to service

[CsabaC]

I made new photos. See here, that drive shaft channel is different. Is separated, but there are those 2 holes. So for sure is not waterproof this channel in my case.
But i have leaking also from the point where is connected the gear rod. So it is leaking also to this channel since i donīt have the gasket between the lower unit.

[Winkj63]

02760782-F62B-428F-8DF0-599DA89E9AB3.png I

think you are right CsabaC.
The holes are normal drain holes and your leak is coming from the #8 water tube grommet and the missing gasket.
I used Permatex Ultimate Gasket Maker instead of the gasket and it sealed great.
Also, I got this reply from another forum so I am relieved to finally have an answer (see pic)
thanks for helping figure this out!

[CsabaC]

Thanks for information. So this issue is solved

[Solarman]

There are reasons the shaft bushing is loose, to allow air to escape from pump housing, so pump is not air bound when submerged. The water tube should seal when lower unit is bolted together providing that grommet is in good condition, a little permatex to hold the grommet in the housing won't hurt, but not needed. The gear shift channel does get water, but the shift rod seal seals the gear case, and doesn't matter, also helps water level to fill above water pump. There are a number of weep holes in the castings to allow air to escape when pump is submerged, and to let water escape when pulled out of the water.

Good luck, happy motoring.

[Winkj63]

Solarman, that actually makes sense. It’s the best explanation I’ve gotten of why the shaft grommet isn’t tight.
The water tube bushing is fine- it’s new and the tube fits snugly in it with a strong tell tale flow that gets warm as the motor warms up. I can hold my hand under the tell tale and also hold my hand on the cylinder head when the motor is at operating temperature. She has never overheated so I’m going to just say the water that escapes past the driveshaft grommet is normal and the two holes behind the lower swivel mount are truly drain holes and all is well.
I thank everyone who helped me with this- your advice is awesome!