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  • Mystery performance issue

    I have a 2016 DF140A on a new Excel Bay Pro 203. My 2016 203 sustained a hull crack and was replaced by Excel. The fuel system venting is totally different on the new hull. The 2016 had a carbon canister filter system that vented out at the splash well. The new system vents at the gas filler cap (I think).

    I had Excel install my engine on a 6 inch manual jackplate. I had been running the engine in the next to the top hole on the transom. My hull straightline measurement to the anti-cavitation plate was 4 inches (anti-cavitation plate was 4 inches ABOVE the hull when measured along the hull centerline). I got good holeshot, great mid-range but not much bow lift with the engine on the transom. I had hoped to get more lift with the jackplate and Performance Prop 13.5x21 SS prop that I had been running.My original set-up ran 42mph light load at 6000rpm WOT. I had Excel place the engine at the 4 inch above hull measurement as a starting spot.

    My initial run of the new set-up produced a neck-snapping hole-shot, great acceleration but no lift and 6200rpm with trim left. The huge issue was it started missing out shortly after launch like it was starving for fuel. The RPM would drop 1-2K then instantly back up. The engine never tried to die and there were no warning lights or codes thrown on the tach.

    I went back thru the fuel and vent system even to the point of taking the gas filler cap apart to make sure it was capable of venting.

    I lowered the engine 1 inch on the jackplate and ran the boat again. I still have a great holeshot with zero cavitation, good mid-range, very little bow lift, and the engine now starts missing after running WOT for about 3-4 miles. The missing is not as drastic and the RPM only drops 500-600 RPM. WOT RPM has dropped to 6100RPM. The engine has never tried to stall. It starts cleanly as always and idles smoothly. I even ran the boat with the gas filler cap open for a short time and the miss was still there.

    I've been in touch with my Suzuki dealer who sold me the rig new and has been included in all dealings with the factory. He is as much puzzled about this missing out as I am. He has sold Suzukis for years and has told me he never had one act like this.

    I'm looking for ideas as to which direction I should go here. We are dealing with the new hull and the new jackplate. I've since lowered the engine another inch but haven't had the chance to run it. I know tuning an engine to a jackplate can be a hair-pulling experience since I've done it several times in the past on bass boats. I wish the $$ was there for a hydraulic plate but it's not. I have just bought a water pressure gauge to install to see if there might be some sort of water pressure issue from the engine height and the engine might be cutting the RPM as a safety measure?

    I've entertained the idea of taking the boat the 3 hour trip to my dealer to hook it to his computer but with zero codes or warning lights, I have to think it would be a wasted trip.

    Ideas appreciated.
    Last edited by doug@5rivers; 12-05-2017, 11:17 AM.

  • #2
    Doug
    what is your primer bulb doing when you are running and it starts to miss?
    I am not familiar with all boats, so if this seems stupid let me know, but I am thinking most fuel systems have the tank air vent separate from where you fill the tank, and would suspect it to be at the back of boat..

    If your fuel bulb is collapsing, this would tell me your tank venting systems is failing..

    Art

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    • #3
      Art,
      The fuel primer bulb is soft and never gets firm, even when pumping up the fuel. I have suspected air being allowed into the fuel lines or the tank vent not working and suction is happening to the tank. I thought opening the fuel cap would solve it but it didn't. That's the maddening thing about this whole scenario--the engine ran perfect for 2 years until it was placed onto the new hull.

      My next move will probably be to replace the bulb and put clamps rather than zip-ties on both ends of the fuel line.

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      • #4
        It sounds like that there is a potential problem. Bulb should be firm. Can also be a small leak in the fuel line between tank and bulb. Then air is sucked in the line and were is air, there is no fuel......
        Regards, Martin
        DF200 2007

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        • #5
          is it a new or used boat. ??

          had several issue's with a new boat with the fuel tank. lots of dust glogging the filters . wrong mounted en glogged / bent fuel lines .

          also an anti siphon valve can couse major problems

          to connect an small external tank to the engine you can determine if it's the boat or the engine which couses the problem
          Last edited by pniksnut; 12-06-2017, 11:52 AM.

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          • #6
            Yep, I agrre with pniksnut on the fuel line obstruction. If you've already tried to diagnose a clogged or faulty vent by loosening the cap, then sounds to be downstream from the tank, prior to the bulb.
            Mike
            μολὼν λαβέ

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            • #7
              Doug
              hose clamps are a must. zip ties kind of work in some situations but...
              the other thing to check is the water/fuel separator between the tank and the bulb and all the connections
              worth replacing especially if you are having fuel problems -and inspect contents for any debris or water
              a quick call to the dealer should tell you were the fuel tank vent is
              it has been discussed about anti siphon devices on the connection to the fuel tank creating fuel flow problems
              a few more things for you to look at!!!
              Art

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              • #8
                Here's what I found; they had put my old fuel line over onto the new tank. The clamp on the anti-siphon was too tight and had crimped and split the fuel line. I took one look at everything and replaced all hose,clamps, bulb and fittings from tank to engine. I have bulb pressure now. Can't run it for a couple of days but I'm confident the fuel issue is gone.

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                • #9
                  Good work!

                  I would remove that anti-syphon valve too. They are just a problem waiting to happen IMO. Can take it off, punch the innards out, and re-install it as an open barb fitting.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Moonlighter View Post
                    Good work!

                    I would remove that anti-syphon valve too. They are just a problem waiting to happen IMO. Can take it off, punch the innards out, and re-install it as an open barb fitting.
                    It's gone. I thought I had might as well start new and clean from the tank to the Suzuki.

                    Thanks for all the replies. I told my wife it is great to hear from boaters from all over the world who all have similar ideas.

                    I ran Yamaha outboards since 1984 and really had no reason to look at Suzuki until I got to noticing all the Suzuki engines with taped up decals on shows like River Monsters, Swamp People, etc. I figured if folks we making their living with Suzukis all over the world, I should find out why. After reading everything I could find, I made the decision to buy my 1st Suzuki, the 2016 DF140A. I'm happy I did.
                    Last edited by doug@5rivers; 12-12-2017, 03:02 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Follow up to this post; I ran my boat last week after tweaking the jack-plate and replacing all fuel lines and bulb. The hole shot was fast, barely any bow rise. Still don't have the lift I seek but the speed increased 3mph with 2 of us in the boat with a full fishing load. WOT was 6000rpm.

                      Obviously the fuel line and anti-siphon valve were all contributing to the poor performance. Now I've just got to save some $$ to got to get to my prop guy to get it propped with a 22 pitch with more cup for the lift.

                      Thanks for the help folks.

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                      • #12
                        Good deal Doug.

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                        • #13
                          You need a prop with more rake for extra bow lift

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                          • #14
                            I'm working on that. Went by my prop guy's place yesterday. BTW he hates Suzuki 4 strokes due to the sensitive tweaking it takes to get one perfect (his words, not mine).. He measured rake (didn't note numbers), pitch, blade length. He said my current Powertech prop was only 13.3"x21. Again his words but he said the Suzuki needs much larger blades than I'm currently running so he pulled a 4 blade 13.8x21 and a 3 blade 13.9x21 (both aluminum) off the shelf and said try these. Only issue is we are currently in a deep freeze and it may be a couple of weeks before I can run them. Once I get where I have the lift I need as well as speed, then we will order a SS prop to match. He said the Powertech had plenty of cup.

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                            • #15
                              My rigging this year with a 140A wound up requiring 14x23" pitch which the Dealer had to order the Suzuki SS 3-14x23" because he didn't have one in stock. The loaner that I ran for a couple of weeks was Aluminum.

                              There is a Big Difference, the SS only made 1 more MPH, but Holeshot, Mid Range, (same as the 2 smoke Yamaha I had) and it rides much higher. The spray starts over 1' further astern than with the AL. Blow out is almost gone (hard turns) and I haven't touched height setting.

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