DF140 - No Spark

[racehydro]

Hi Suzuki fans:

I have a 2002 DF140 that has run perfectly for a total of 200 hours. Last time out we were just idling along and the engine just stopped running. Checked fuses, fuel, etc. and cranked over fine, but it would not start. Got back on the trailer and did not find anything wrong. At home I went through:

- It is getting fuel
- Spark plugs look good (tested them with another engine and they spark)
- Neutral safety switch works
- Fuses good (did an ohm meter test)
- Cranks over fine (while in neutral)
- Emergency shut off switch works fine (disconnected it and did an ohm meter test)
- Power Trim/tilt work fine
- No error codes or error tones
- No loose wires or loose connections
- Cleaned battery connections

The bottom line is it does not have spark. So everything I tried checks out fine but no spark. Short of replacing the ECG ($1600!), is there anything else you would suggest I try?

I have read every related thread on here I could find but have not found an answer. Thanks for your help!

Steve

[Solarman]

df140, 02, not running

Steve, you've covered most basics. Do you have a repair manual for your motor?
You should start checking the coils from your magneto by the manual. start testing those. Ill be back later.

[Solarman]

df140, not running

OK, back Steve.
Many interruptions. No spark, not running.
If no codes are showing, then probably have a problem with magneto, or the timing coil, both located under the flywheel.
If no manual, then you may have to hook up to computer at dealer.
Sorry, these newer motors require computer hook up to find some problems faster. And my guess is one of those items has a problem.
Good luck. let us know how it goes.

[racehydro]

Thanks Solarman. I do have a manual - which helped to check out the other items. I will check the magneto and coils with the tools I have. Last resort will be to head to the dealer.

[redlowrey]

The df140 runs a fully transistorized ignition system, meaning it needs battery voltage to charge the coils primary winding. A magneto uses magnetic induction, connect up a volt meter or test light turn the ignition on and see if you have battery voltage on the connectors at the coil.

[racehydro]

The df140 runs a fully transistorized ignition system, meaning it needs battery voltage to charge the coils primary winding. A magneto uses magnetic induction, connect up a volt meter or test light turn the ignition on and see if you have battery voltage on the connectors at the coil.

Redlowery:
I tested the resistance of the coils per the service manual and they are right on specs. I measured the voltage to the coils with the ignition on and there is no voltage at the coil connector.

Thanks for the help!

[redlowrey]

With the ignition on check to see if you have battery voltage at the injectors, if not pull the cover off the ecu move it forward and make sure the power relay connector has not come loose. The power relay supplies battery voltage to your coils, injectors, fuel pump, all through a gray wire. When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds, and do the four red lights come on and the tacho needle flicker. feed me imformation and I will find the problem for you.

[racehydro]

With the ignition on check to see if you have battery voltage at the injectors, if not pull the cover off the ecu move it forward and make sure the power relay connector has not come loose. The power relay supplies battery voltage to your coils, injectors, fuel pump, all through a gray wire. When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds, and do the four red lights come on and the tacho needle flicker. feed me information and I will find the problem for you.

I just checked and NO, there is no voltage to the injectors with the ignition ON. I found the relays behind the ECU and the connectors are secure. Not sure which one is the power relay but I am going to pull them off and test them to verify they work by applying 12VDC to them.

When I turn the ignition ON, I do get the four red lights on the tach and the needle shows the engine hours but I can't tell if the fuel pump is running (need to find someone that can be near the engine to listen).

Thanks for the help - will get more testing done tomorrow.

[redlowrey]

Have a look at the connector where the gray wire from the power relay goes and check for battery voltage out of the other gray wires that go to your coils, fuel pump, and injectors. When you get battery voltage back up I think your problem will be fixed.

[racehydro]

There was battery voltage on the wires but nothing out the other side of the relay. I pulled the relay and put a battery across one side and nothing. Then I did a few connect / disconnects of the relay to a battery. At first I didn't hear a 'click' and then I did hear it. Did this a half dozen times and it kept 'clicking'. Put it back together and there was voltage to the coils - and she runs!

Is is possible for this relay to hang up or stick? Or could it be an intermittent relay? I will get a new one to replace it, but am a bit worried about what could cause this.

Thanks so much for your help!

Steve

Have a look at the connector where the gray wire from the power relay goes and check for battery voltage out of the other gray wires that go to your coils, fuel pump, and injectors. When you get battery voltage back up I think your problem will be fixed.

[Ckingnirvana]

DF140 - No Spark - Did you resolve your issue

You should check the wires leading from the ignition coils back to the ECM and ECM relay. There may be a capacitor that is blown which will prevent voltage from getting the ignition coils.

[racehydro]

Well, after the engine 'healing itself' after messing with the ECM relay, the ignition came back and the engine ran.

Now I just put another 10 hours on the engine and was just putting along and it stopped again. I have pulled and check the relay and fuses, and cleaned all the grounds and it still will not start. So this is the second time where the engine is running great and just stops cold with no spark.

Is it possible to have an intermittent issue with the ECM? Doesn't seem likely, but I am really spooked now about getting to far from the dock.

Anyone have any ideas on what could cause the engine to run fine, then the ignition goes dead (still cranks over, tillt works, etc.), then after messing with it, it starts to work again?

Steve

[Ckingnirvana]

No spark/Intermittent electrical issue

I experienced a similar issue with an intermittent no spark situation to a couple of the cylinders on my DF40. Sometimes it would start and run fine, but at other times it would run rough or not start. Eventually, it would not start at all as a result of no spark. In checking the continuity of the gray wires leading from the ECM to the ignition coils, I traced the problem to a 2 inch section of the gray wires where there was no continuity. When I split the wires open, the copper wire had turned to dust. There was no evidence of water intrusion or corrosion. I assumed that a short in my electrical system resulted in the overheating and eventual breakdown of the wires. As a temporary fix, I rewired the sections and the motor has been running perfectly since. P.S. I eventually traced the short to my trim motor that was slowly filling with salt water.

[WEDOCQ]

Well, after the engine 'healing itself' after messing with the ECM relay, the ignition came back and the engine ran.

Now I just put another 10 hours on the engine and was just putting along and it stopped again. I have pulled and check the relay and fuses, and cleaned all the grounds and it still will not start. So this is the second time where the engine is running great and just stops cold with no spark.

Is it possible to have an intermittent issue with the ECM? Doesn't seem likely, but I am really spooked now about getting to far from the dock.

Anyone have any ideas on what could cause the engine to run fine, then the ignition goes dead (still cranks over, tillt works, etc.), then after messing with it, it starts to work again?

Steve

I am confused. Did you replace the ECM relay that started working again after you pulled it and ran power to it?
-Shawn

[WEDOCQ]

I experienced a similar issue with an intermittent no spark situation to a couple of the cylinders on my DF40. Sometimes it would start and run fine, but at other times it would run rough or not start. Eventually, it would not start at all as a result of no spark. In checking the continuity of the gray wires leading from the ECM to the ignition coils, I traced the problem to a 2 inch section of the gray wires where there was no continuity. When I split the wires open, the copper wire had turned to dust. There was no evidence of water intrusion or corrosion. I assumed that a short in my electrical system resulted in the overheating and eventual breakdown of the wires. As a temporary fix, I rewired the sections and the motor has been running perfectly since. P.S. I eventually traced the short to my trim motor that was slowly filling with salt water.

***! That is some AWESOME detective work!
-Shawn