Suzuki 200 HP 2017 Trim down range of motion limited

[Melbjim]

This FIXED it!

You just need to increase the diameter of the analog trim sensor's actuator arm's short stubby axle where the plastic down-trim bracket engages when going from full up tilt//trim to down trim. I used a short piece of plastic-velcro-fiber USB cable cinch wrap material wound about 2 times around the sensor arm and secured with the velcro - perfect thickness (1/4"-3/8" diameter expansion). You can use anything - duct tape, a short section of 3/8" diameter pipe/tubing etc.


Just perform the regular procedure for clearing the lower limit switch limits after dropping the motor all the way down flush to transom using the hydraulic trim release screw (on port side of engine at transom frame access port).This gets you the full range of actuator motion from transom all the way up to the up-limit switch/cam.

When you run the procedure to set the full up and full down range before lowering down with the down PTT just be sure to first pull off that temporary spacer. The motor will go all the way down flush to transom (or very close to it depending on how much diameter expansion material you used). Then the gauges work and you also get full range of actuator up/down motion.

Should have been such a simple adjustment/maintenance routine but alas it seems that some nerdy ECU programmers figured out a great way to confound the programming so to keep everyone from being able to go negative on the prop thrust angle to protect us from only God knows what (being negative?? ). But what a great way to increase revenues for shops with more mechanics time and sell new sensors on the presumption that the analog trim sensors must be bad (when most are not).

[Melbjim]

This problem investigation just gets deeper and deeper.

Wish I had checked before I left the shop. The analog gauge's trim settings were all messed up - showing all high angle tilt/trim up settings irrespective of actual engine trim angle.

So tried to reprogram the trim/tilt ECU settings using the procedure. That makes the analog trim tilt meter work but again I could not get full hard stop down. So I had to again use the hydraulic release override to drop the engine full down against the engine metal transom frame hard stops (the last 10-20 degrees of range of motion). The new sensor did not solve the original problem.

In my research It turns out that this is how Suzuki designed it. It's extremely irritating and utterly stupid the way this programming works since by default we can't get full hard down range of motion without messing up the analog gauge readings. You only get full hard down but not proper gauge readings unless you do a trick.

I found the trick in an earlier post here on the forums that shows a way to hack the programming to get both full hard down and proper analog gauge readings. See link below. I have not tried it yet but it sounds like this is the way to do it.

You have to trick the ECU programming by tinkering with the trim sensor's plastic slider assembly so that it appears to reach hard stop earlier than it really does. This is done by putting wraps of masking tape on the sensor contact lever to make it thicker so triggers a faux/simulated hard stop earlier before exceeding gauge analog range limits.

If you don't do something like this then you can only get to within 10-20 degeees off hard stop and the gauge working onlt over that range of motion. But if you use the hydraulic over ride to get full down during resetiing of actuator range of motion the analog gauge will not make any sense at all and is useless.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...df300ap-2.html

[Melbjim]

Nothing else mentioned in the service manual that I can find. Any chance your Tilt/Trim lock lever is bent or somehow damaged and causing grief? I’ll send you the troubleshooting chart of the Tilt/Trim

Appreciate all the support Murray.

I was really perplexed and annoyed by the reset/clear procedure not working for the trim up side of the system - no buzzer tone at all. So I went ahead and trailered and brought into my mechanic to have a look see.

It turned out that the analog trim gauge trim sensor attached near to the starboard side hydraulic trim actuator was visibly corroded. We put a new one and re-ran the reset/clear trim-up procedure. That failed the first time (no confirmation beep tone). On the second attempt it worked. So it appears that the ECU up/down trim/ reset logic actually DOES look at the analog signal and not just the limit switches. The theory is that that sensor was intermittent over the full range of motion - especially to the upside of it (where the up trim reset failed as I reported). Am just relieved that I didn't have some kind of ECU firmware bug or some esoteric electrical harness feedback/continuity issue.

I will be taking the boat out hopefully today for a confirmation test run on the water that everything its all fixed now.

Hopefully this history here will be useful to assisting others having similar issues in the future .

[Melbjim]

Nothing else mentioned in the service manual that I can find. Any chance your Tilt/Trim lock lever is bent or somehow damaged and causing grief? I’ll send you the troubleshooting chart of the Tilt/Trim

Appreciate all the support Murray.
I went ahead and re-trailered and brought into my mechanic to have look see. I was really perplexed and annoyed by the reset/clear procedure not working for the trim up side of the system - no buzzer tone at all.

It turned out that the analog trim gauge trim sensor attached near to the starboard side hydraulic trim actuator was corroded. We put a new one in and the reset/clear trim up procedure failed the first time but then worked the second attempt. So it appears that the ECU logic actually DOES look at the analog signal and not just the limit switches. The theory is that it was intermittent over the full range of motion - especially to the upside of it (where the up trim reset failed as I reported).. Am just relieved that I didn't have some kind of ECU firmware bug or some esoteric electrical harness feedback/continuity issue.

I will be taking the boat out hopefully today for a confirmation test run on the water that its all fixed now.

Hopefully this history here will be useful to others in the future.

[Murray]

Thanks - got your email of screen shot of the above info.

It looks to me from that info that the lower cam may have an adjustment but there's no mention of it. Apart from the procedure to clear the upper trim ECU limit setting not working for me at all I am wondering if I can fiddle with the lower cam to get it to go full flush with the transom? By chance, did you happen see any info or procedure on how to adjust the lower cam mechanical range of motion? Just curious. I am actually kind of surprised that there's a lower limit cam at all given that the transom frame stop limits it mechanically.

Nothing else mentioned in the service manual that I can find. Any chance your Tilt/Trim lock lever is bent or somehow damaged and causing grief? I’ll send you the troubleshooting chart of the Tilt/Trim

[Melbjim]

I just posted the paragraph that covers the Tilt Limit Cam but it appears the screenshot has been placed in quarantine until approved. If you want send me your email and I’ll forward the screenshot on to you.

Thanks - got your email of screen shot of the above info.

It looks to me from that info that the lower cam may have an adjustment but there's no mention of it. Apart from the procedure to clear the upper trim ECU limit setting not working for me at all I am wondering if I can fiddle with the lower cam to get it to go full flush with the transom? By chance, did you happen see any info or procedure on how to adjust the lower cam mechanical range of motion? Just curious. I am actually kind of surprised that there's a lower limit cam at all given that the transom frame stop limits it mechanically.

[Murray]

I just posted the paragraph that covers the Tilt Limit Cam but it appears the screenshot has been placed in quarantine until approved. If you want send me your email and I’ll forward the screenshot on to you.

[Murray]

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Found it, took a while,,,

[Melbjim]

Additional Discovery.
I have a PDF copy of the DF200A manual (Suzuki 200 HP) but do not see any reference at all to the procedure for resetting the programmable limit switch settings/total-range-of-motion (after scan searching all the obvious keywords to hunt for it (e.g. tilt, trim, CAM or limit, reset, etc,). The Suzuki 90 HP procedure given here in this thread is more than my manual has (again, much appreciated!). Is there another more technically detailed mechanic's shop manual available that give additional info on the procedure for reprogramming for my exact model? This provided info for the Suzuki 90 HP model works apparently for the down side limit (mostly) but fails on the upside reprogram/reset. I can't imagine that the company would have completely changed the procedure across models though so I wanted to ask and double check if anyone knows that it is actually resettable for the 200 HP.

Another info find. The electrical schematic shows two inputs that may work into the tilt/trim firmware logic - 1) A Trim & Tilt Sensor (which I presume probably only drives the console analog tilt needle gauge and is likely not really used by "the logic"; and 2) A Trim & Tilt Limit Switch (which I presume is only a purely mechanical limit CAM for the UP side of it to physically prevent the motor from impinging upon the boat transom facia when fully raised up. The lower limit is fixed apparently by the physical transom mechanical bracing frame (I can actually hear the hydraulic motor still running when I hold the switch down when I go all the way down and do not release it).

Trying to get more insights into why the reset procedure of the upper limit programmable setting is not working since It seems that it comes into play for setting the analog tilt gauge readings at the very least and may also play into the down trim final soft limits.

[Melbjim]

The Up Limit Reset procedure failure is really bizarre since it implies to me a firmware bug that may have long existed and this is actually a double failure.
I know that up button works since I can use it to tilt the engine full up. So why doesn't t the Up Limit Switch Reset logic see my up button 3 second press and complete the limit position reset logic or at least give a failure indication?

If the firmware logic saw some kind of open sensor or timeout I would have expected a different kind of response - not just remain moot/silent. At least some kind "ECU is trying but failed - here's why": - e.g. a failure code like a long multiple tone error warning buzzer or a blinking RED pattern change to give a code look up as to "why". Not just a do nothing at all - it's still in reset/reprogram mode as best I can tell.

I used to design firmware and it makes no sense at all for the firmware to "do nothing" when a button is pressed and there's some kind of fault detected. Even an open signal in the limit switch should result in a visual or audible effect that is different than the success indication. Again, I know that the "tilt up" button works - so why is not the ECU firmware seeing it and giving at least some kind of feedback as to why it does not reset the settings??

No firmware designer worth his salt would "do nothing" - some kind of feedback to the cockpit tech would be highly proper/expected...

[Melbjim]

Tried both up/down limit switch reset procedures many times - NO JOY. Bummer. But I did learn something. I may have a upper limit switch signal issue that is confusing the logic for the lower/down limit switch signaling and full range of travel console gauge and programming logic.

The manual procedure is misleading too since it's unclear if I am supposed to power off the key switch after going from the prepataory "Cancel the Trim Down Limit Position Setting" and then doing the "Setting the Trim Down Position" limit position procedure. The blinking red console programming light goes off after returning the throttle to neutral so I am not confident that the resetting of the up/down full range check in the procedure is doing anything at all in step 7 of the procedure other than giving a confidence check that it works or not.

(Note: Another esoteric thing in the procedures is that for the top style of throttles I have on my boat I had to press the throttle rubber center axis button mechanism to get any of the program buzzer logic to work - apparently that decouples the mechanical throttle mechanism itself and turns the throttle lever into just an electronic switch/slider of sorts)

The good news is that the down limit switch reset procedure lets me clear the logic enough that I can at least now get all the way to the full down position using the console throttle trim switches without having to fiddle with a screwdriver over the transom to do a hydraulic release to get it down flush to transom. That's "good enough" to let me plane off the boat and less a hassle than reaching over and around the transom with a screwdriver to release hydraulics on the trim actuators. But when I do the last step 7 of the procedure (to go to full UP limit then back down to lower limit) the down trim stops short again on the down side about 20 degrees from flush. The red blinking "program mode" LED goes off after the throttle is put back to neutral - so its' unclear if this last step is even programming anything or is just a confidence test that it all "took" from full up to full down to set the full range of motion.


The really bad news is that when I tried to reset the UP limit switch logic (per the Setting Tilt Up Limit Switch Procedure) to explore its relationship to the lower limit I could NOT get the buzzer confirmation that it was accepting the "reset" while in program mode in step 5 (pressing the throttle's trim up switch for 3 seconds). This implies to me that there's some kind of open wire or switch signal somewhere in the limit switching logic that must be confounding the problem. I must have damaged a sensor wire or connector etc. when this problem first developed after trailering it last week. Either that or there's an error in this procedure??

If I can't get both sides of the trim/tilt limit reset and reprogrammed I don't see how to proceed - trying to avoid having to re-trailer and deal with all the logistics of that by myself. What would prevent the trim up limit switch reset procedure from not letting me clear the setting (no buzzer confirm after holding up button 3 secs per step 5) once I did get into program mode? I think this question is the key - what signal is the ECU looking for but not seeing?

I was hoping that since the programming LED and buzzer signals seem to work ok using the down trim position reset that it would let me get up/down both resynced. But it resets the lower limit different than when I set it and so I don't do step 7 just so I can use the down trim to get it down all the way. Anyone know if the down trim reset procedure is sufficient to normally get both up/down working together or does each procedure stand alone (up/down)?

Anyone have any ideas?

[Murray]

Screenshot from 2009-2012 DF90A service manual, hopefully Suzuki didn’t change the procedure. I found very little on the Tilt Limit Cam setup, there is likely a sentence or two somewhere in the service manual but that particular sentence didn’t jump out on me.

[Melbjim]

I just posted 2 screenshots that have to be approved outlining the procedure to adjust the trim up and down limits. I’ll try one at a time and see what happens. If no screenshots appear I can email you the procedure.

Oh man - THANKS! This is exactly the info I was trying to find. Let me go see if I can do this and save a massive hassle of finding a second person to retrailer and help with car logistics etc. to bring in for service.

Much appreciated.

Will check back in to give results.

[Moonlighter]

Screen shots are appearing nicely Murray.

[Murray]

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